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Episode 102: From Zero to millions - growth in a family business

Matt McCauley* CEO of LogoBrands discusses his beginnings in the business, from starting in a garage to growing into a multi-million dollar company, the challenges of working with family members and the transition from father to son. He also covers how they expanded into new product categories, how and why he maintains company culture and core values, as well as the role of his faith in his business.

Episode #102 Transcript

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Welcome everybody to the family. Biz show. I'm your host, Michael Columbus, with family wealth and legacy in Rochester, New York.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Today we have Matt Mccauley from logo brands joining us. A multi-generation family owned business that has grown from a small 2 car garage to have multiple locations and hundreds of employees, and team members around the world. So welcome, Matt.

 

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Matt McCauley: thank you for having me.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: So we have a tradition, and I probably I need to come up with a new tagline to. We have a tradition, but we love to hear people's

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: entree

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: into the family business. You know. What did. What did your entree look like? How long you know where it was? Right after high school? Did you go to college? Did you do other things? What was your journey into this? Into the family business?

 

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Matt McCauley: Yeah. I ironically. Quit college to start a college business with my dad. So he was a serial entrepreneur. He did a bunch of different things from tune up shops, block walls, build houses.

 

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Matt McCauley: was always doing something. We talked about starting the business together. So I was 2 and a half years into college and hated every minute of it was not built for it.

 

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Matt McCauley: and so we were brought the idea for the folding bag chair back when Walmart had just came out with a chair that didn't even have arms so it was new to the market. And so that's he's like, Hey, you wanna

 

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Matt McCauley: pursue this and we'll throw some Logos on and see what we can do with it. So his goal was

 

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Matt McCauley: 1,000 customers doing $1,000 a year. He goes where you can build a million dollar business. And that was our goal. And so I said, Sure, so I quit, and day one we started it from nothing.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I love it. I love it so. You just said something that I want people to hear, because it went so quick.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: It was 1,000 customers, 1,000 chairs a year, and so so here's the part that I think people over complicate business. If you just get out your calculator and say, I wanna do you know, here's the number I want to do, then divide that by the number of units, and then the number of customers, you know, number of customers and units.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: You've got a business plan.

 

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Matt McCauley: and you know what your marching orders are Yup, yeah, and and build, you know, realistic number. And it was something you could see. It was very attainable. And you know, of course, when we started it. He's like, all right. I guess we'll be logo chair company, and I'm like, well, what if we do something other than chairs? He's like? Oh, we won't mess with anything else, you know. And about 2, 3 years later we had 5 items that weren't chairs.

 

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Matt McCauley: But that was pretty typical. So where you logo chairs in the beginning? Oh, yeah. And actually, we're logo chair forever. And then we we went by logo because we started making other stuff. But it still, said logo chairs on all the paperwork. So in the licensing people would see it.

 

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Matt McCauley: they would think, oh, that's logo chair, and we wouldn't get opportunities for blankets or other things that we could do or we're doing. And so eventually we bought them out into the end of 2,012, and we changed it to logo brands officially. So

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that would help with, you know, getting more opportunities absolutely. And today, when you look at the business, how many S. How many different skews do you guys have besides chairs today?

 

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Matt McCauley: Oh, hundreds, we yeah. So lots of different categories, lots of skews. And really, chairs is kind of the. you know, smaller, lowest margin item we have, you know. So

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: this things change and and and so you and so you have to be looking, you know, and my my gut says there might be some some branded mug that you know did really? Well, that was insulated, for, you know, for a while. And and even if that's still hot today, that insulated mug that's so fantastic, that is around, you know. I nobody even knew their name 5 years ago, and now they're everywhere.

 

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Matt McCauley: There's going to be something new that changes always. Yeah, I'm not sure. We made a acquisition for a drinkware company at the end of 2,020,

 

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Matt McCauley: and it was it was good for our business. It catapulted us. We've tripled since we made that acquisition. And it was actually one of those were my business partner and you know the crew that helps me run this thing. They were a little hesitant on the move. I was pretty adamant that it was the right move for us, and

 

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Matt McCauley: we managed to get the deal done, that it was kind of a different type of deal that we structured in the acquisition. And so we're able to pull it off.

 

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Matt McCauley: And it's been great for our business, and but it was one of those where. Yeah, chairs intents were. We're the only player in that market now. We hold the exclusive pretty much throughout all the different leagues and and teams. But it it's not a growing market like it used to be until we're looking for something else that we could, you know, expand and do more.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: So talk about your your business is different than the traditional.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: You know. We have swag. We have stuff to, you know, to take. You know that you can use in your business. Talk about. You know the history behind what you've done, and

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know how you built the business rate from the get go just that one pic. You know we you have the exclusive arrangements with a lot of these teams. Talk. Let's talk about that a little bit.

 

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Matt McCauley: Yeah. So getting the licenses is very difficult. And so when we started 20 phones 25 years ago now it was a little bit easier to get into this business. We started with college, and we didn't add the Nfl until was it 2,014?

 

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Matt McCauley: so we were in business. We were the, you know, bigger college player without having we had Mlb. But we didn't have all the other leaks. Now we have, you know all of them all the pro as well as college. And then within the colleges we have 40 of the top universities, where

 

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Matt McCauley: we're the exclusive provider for chairs and tents and the Tailgate side. But we're they break it up into apparel and non apparel in our world. So if you go to get license, you're gonna get apparel or not at all. So we are the largest non apparel provider. So we don't do any kind of clothing or anything like that. But

 

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Matt McCauley: chairs, tents, coolers, Drinkwear blankets, so kind of anything that you might use Tailgate as well as in the home or on the go.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I love it.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I love it. And so you and your dad. You're in the garage when you start this thing.  You know we what is your marching orders. What are you doing? Day? What's day to day look like for Matt?

 

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Matt McCauley: So we got our first container, and it was November. It came in 6 months later than it was supposed to. So we didn't know anything about importing product. And you know the factory delays. And

 

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Matt McCauley: but so the product shows up not the ideal time to go out and try and sell college merchandise. And so my marching orders were, fill up the van and don't come home until it's empty, and go get us some accounts.

 

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Matt McCauley: So he didn't even go with me on the first calls. So here I am, you know, 21 year old, kid. I don't know anything, and

 

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Matt McCauley: so literally loaded up the van. And just so happened I was dating to grow up in Fayetteville, Arkansas. We were living in Memphis at the time, so I filled it up with Arkansas chairs, and off I went.

 

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Matt McCauley: and I was able to get them all sold, and I had 1,000 success rate on closing, because I literally had a few guys look at me and they're like.

 

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Matt McCauley: you're not leaving until I buy something, are you? I'm like, no, I don't get to go home till the vans empty. It's just matter how many you're taking. It might be on consignment. But you're taking something, you know.

 

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Matt McCauley: So you know, I'd put every dollar I'd ever saved. Had a long and landscape business with my best friend, who's on my 50 50 partner in this in high school, and sold it when went off to college. So I'd taken all all the money I'd earned over years and threw it into this business. So I wasn't, you know. Gonna take no for an answer.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I love it, you know. Mark Cuban is often coined to saying, You know, if you lost everything tomorrow, what would you do? So I'd start in sales someplace and so you know your story. I just had somebody else on the show, and I don't remember the person's name off. You know the top of my head, but

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: he threw, you know, stuff into a car, and he slept in a car for 6 months, going from place to place to place. Might have even been might even been 2 years. I mean it was, you know, just

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know, they didn't have the money for a hotel. They didn't have the money for things, and so, you know, he would go to truck, stops and shower up and get going, had to change it, look good and smell good and

 

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Matt McCauley: but and just make it happen

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: a lot of miles on the van. We we were not flying everywhere. It was a lot of driving. Yeah, good for you. I think again that in this day and age it's really important for somebody

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: who is starting a business or currently running business. Sometimes you gotta go back to basics and forget. You know all of the fancy, hey? This, that, and the other thing. And and granted, it is more difficult today to make a cold call than it was 25 years ago.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: But there's still something about.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know, knocking on somebody's door and showing up and saying, I got something you've got to see, and I'm not going to wait until it you at least throw me out of here, you know.

 

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Matt McCauley: So true.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Good! Good on you for that. I appreciate it.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC:  walk us through a little bit of what's it like working with Dad the first 3 to 5 years?

 

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Matt McCauley:  good and challenging. There was pros and cons. We we

 

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Matt McCauley: you know, we've kind of always butted heads a little bit

 

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Matt McCauley: and he's

 

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Matt McCauley: he was interesting, and that it was one of those where he, you know, for example, he would

 

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Matt McCauley: sent me off to Asia after we went over there twice and visited a factory. And then he's like, Yeah, you seem to have this down pretty good. And so all the rest of the factories we've ever had in the office we set up over in Asia. I did all that like some 2324. And he basically just didn't want to travel to Asia, I think. But

 

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Matt McCauley: you know, to send me over there before

 

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Matt McCauley: iphones and all the you know, I'm over there with a flip phone, and people didn't speak as much English and all that, but so he would give me a lot of things and and trust me with certain stuff. Maybe it's because he just didn't want to do it. But then the other stuff it was.

 

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Matt McCauley: you know. Ride me all the time. So typical, father, son, you know. Relation. We're a lot of it doesn't make sense, and

 

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Matt McCauley: you know my my business partner. Now, my friend, you know he's been around since we were 1415, so he's he knows, you know, he's almost like an adopted son. So

 

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Matt McCauley: you know, he would tell you. It wasn't always maybe fair how I was treated. But that's just family right? Right?

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Yeah, it's yeah. I'm second generation. A lot of times. People don't realize that when you know they're on the show and my father and I like II can't tell you the amount of respect

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that I have for what Dad did

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and how he did it. He I mean, here's a guy that came out of the seminary supposed to be a priest. His mom wanted him to be a priest. She she spent all, sent all 4 boys to the you know, to become priests, and she ended up getting one out of it, you know. Good, good Irish, Irish, Italian, mom, and so

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC:  You know he was working for the dice. He's a Rochester, he was, you know. He was like made nothing. And my, my, my mom, you know my biological father had passed away in a motorcycle accident, and my my mom and like went from, you know, this guy, I gotta do good for the for the church and the community, and Yada Yada Yada to

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: oh, my gosh! I have a wife and 2 kids now. I can't make a I can't support a family on this. So you know, he got into the insurance business well before it was wealth, management, or mutual funds, or anything like that, and never sold anything in his whole entire life.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and supported our family forever. So I have a ton of respect for how he did and what he did, and why he chose the company. We've still been with the same company, even though it's changed names and sold. The core has been the same. It's always been a serve first

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: philosophy, which is in our industry, just unheard of.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And and so but to your point, you know, there's Dan and I couldn't go on appointments together.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: It just never. We were never able to close, you know. We could close a cut a client and work with them. But then there's like this weird dynamic between the 2 of us, and and we'll be just like

 

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Matt McCauley: what just happened. There was that my fault? Was that his fault, cause it definitely wasn't the clients fault?

 

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Matt McCauley: Yeah, we had very different ways of approaching stuff. And, as you know, we know in business, it's Hey, there's a lot of different ways to get there, and doesn't make one way better than the other, right or wrong, so to speak. But there's different ways, and you know he and I had different ways. He struggled with that, that he was very much a. It's my way, that's the only way, and my way works, and and he had success in a lot of businesses. So I get that.

 

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Matt McCauley: But it made it hard for him, as I kind of

 

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Matt McCauley: did things a different way. But you know there were fun times like we go in the warehouse. and we have to get a bunch of products stickered for a customer. And so we'd make it fun. We make it a competition. We get a couple of lines going and be like, Okay, everybody come out. We're gonna stick, or we call it sticker parties, and like who could do it the fastest, right? So of course, he'd be like, all right.

 

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Matt McCauley: 2 teams. You take one, I'll take the other things. He's gonna beat me. And so my, my process was different than his. And then I kept beating him. Well, then, he wanted to steal all the best people for his, you know, team like oh, and then you know th the equipment that he needed, and he still couldn't beat me, and so then it was one of the. But he would never admit that. You know my way was better, or even change his way to mind. But so it was. Those kind of things that you know, early on. And I just

 

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Matt McCauley: III knew what I was getting into in the family business. So II was okay with it as best I could be, you know.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Good

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I would throw, you know you said something else. You would create competition to do the stickering of products, and it, which is super super simple.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: At the same time, you know, we don't do things like that enough nowadays where you you let's put 2 teams against each other in a friendly competition, and you know, and get the productivity up because nobody wants to be on the losing team

 

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Matt McCauley: right? Oh, yeah, we we're always about it here. I got, you know, I'm saying like, Hey, there's always a winner and loser. I like to win. So these people that are like, Hey, let's just do it for fun. I'm like, Well, great! Well, let's go ahead and win, because I think winning spawn. And then you get to have fun, too. You know it's everybody went. So that's great.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: So

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: let's you know what the transition what would, how many years was it before you said it was like 3 or 4 years before you had other products besides the chairs.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: some of the decisions that you know made a difference. If you look back through your the history of the business, share some of the the great decisions. But if you don't mind share some of those decisions where it's like, Okay, that one hurt Rand doing that one again.

 

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Matt McCauley: We.

 

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Matt McCauley: We were slow to get over to Asia and really meet with factories and know how that worked. My dad didn't like to travel like I said. So he relied on some of the email. And so

 

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Matt McCauley: we struggled with getting product consistently with the

 

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Matt McCauley: the quality that we were wanting. But that said, that leads to one of the stories that I would say was good. So, for example.  we decided to branch out and start making tents that first came out.

 

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Matt McCauley: So the tailgate tent, like we know it. So we went to a show. We saw a tent looks great. Let's say that weighed about 50 pounds this tent, right? So we wait forever. Tents finally show up, and they weigh maybe 25 pounds, cause they have skimmed on the steel so much, and it is not the same product that we ordered. These things were horrible. I mean, they were so bad we put them up. They're breaking.

 

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Matt McCauley: So we literally called. All of our customers have been waiting all year for this tent, and said, Hey, we don't want to ship you this tent. It's horrible. It's so bad, and you're not going to be happy with it, and they said, It can't be that bad ship. It will take whatever.

 

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Matt McCauley: So we said, Okay, so we shipped it.

 

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Matt McCauley: and then they got them. And they said, Wow, these tents are horrible.

 

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Matt McCauley: And so we said, Well, we'll we'll still replace it, and we'll still give you credit. And so we honored a product that we didn't even want to send them on the front end because we thought it was that bad. We built so much credibility during that time.

 

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Matt McCauley: because we did it on the front end, and then, even once they asked for it, we still honored and took care of them, even though it wasn't our fault that they asked for, you know. So it was one of those where

 

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Matt McCauley: that taught me such a good lesson. Early as like.

 

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Matt McCauley: hey? If you just are willing to take care of the people, and they know you will, there'll be so loyal, and then it would. Then, when we got the right tent, we said, Hey, we got a good item there. Oh, great! Well, we trust you because you told us when it was bad, right? And so. And even if it is bad, we know you're gonna take care of us because you honored it when you really didn't even have to, because we were the ones asking for, you know. So it stuff like that that my dad was really good at that taught us those great lessons about it. Don't worry about maybe the loss today or like.

 

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Matt McCauley: don't be so concerned with that bottom line decision. Just do the right thing. It'll all play on the end. Yeah.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: in talking to you and the way that you did business, it reminds me, have you read Phil Knights book just listening to you? Go into Europe and and put these things together. It's there's some parallels there.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: so we we'll call you chair dog.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: But

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Talk about what about the team's growth. You know. Wh what were some of the things that worked? You know we when it's you and Dad, it's one thing, but it went to you and dad and 5 people, and you and dad and 15 people to the size of the team that you have today. How did you manage growth? And what were some of the things that you know that worked

 

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Matt McCauley: when it came to? You know II have family, you know you and your dad. Is there any other family members in the business today? Well, so it started with my mom and dad and I. And then within a few months my sister came on board.

 

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Matt McCauley: And then, like I said, the one of the first hires we made. My dad goes all right. We need a salesperson, I said, well, I know exactly who we need. So that's when Chris, my business partner, best friend from high school. We hired him and my dad let him buy in at the same rate that he let my sister and I buy in.

 

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Matt McCauley: So the 3 of us were. The young ones were 10% owners and my parents had 35 each. Okay.

 

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Matt McCauley: so that was the early family. But we have had

 

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Matt McCauley: Chris's parents. Both work here. I have, like Mom doesn't anymore. Actually, his dad just came back recently which really excited about his brother works here. His wife worked here for a bit. She actually worked with me in the warehouse for a little bit before she was, you know, inside invoicing.

 

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Matt McCauley: My uncle

 

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Matt McCauley: his son. So my cousin, so we've had, and he's been in and out. So we've had some various things. I've had friends and then one of our good friends that came on early actually end up marrying my sister.

 

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Matt McCauley: And so my brother-in-law worked here for bed, and then

 

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Matt McCauley: he was a third owner. When we bought out my dad with private equity. Unfortunately, that didn't work out. We just we had different, you know, ways of viewing business. And so at the end of the day it didn't work out, end up having to

 

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Matt McCauley: fire him and part ways, and they didn't speak to to me for a few years, and that was

 

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Matt McCauley: that was tough, but we're since on good speaking terms and and back to back to normal, and you know, not surprising. He's been very successful in what he's done but it just kinda one of those were I. I've I've run the full gamut of having friends not talk to me when I'd fire him and family, and

 

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Matt McCauley: you know you. You try and make the right call for the business and put all that aside. But that usually means that you take the brawn of it when it doesn't go. Well, you know. So you really have been all over the place on those that's great. Oh, yeah, yeah. And you know it's the decisions and the way I would handle it today. After all, that experience would look way different than a way I handled most of them during it. You know you you

 

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Matt McCauley: you're seeking advice. You're trying to do the right thing, and the probably the worst one was taking some of the advice from people and going against my gut, and those were the ones that probably blew up the most my face, cause II didn't just do it the way I thought I should've, but I was trying to not.

 

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Matt McCauley: You know. Hubris is a tough thing, and I didn't want to feel like I was, I knew better.

 

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Matt McCauley: But if there's one thing I look back now is like, Hey, I could. I could have lived with my own mistake, but it was tough taking the advice, and then it not going well and having to live with somebody else's, you know.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: agreed

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Christina. This is that spot where I'm gonna ask you to do a little editing. Later.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: My, my! My wife came home, and you she don't normally come home necessarily. And so the dog was going. And she's gonna wanna so I'm gonna just shut my door so they don't have to bother me and never yeah. And Christina, that's the other thing to add to the checklist.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: We we, we wire our computer, our internet now so that we don't have.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: we don't have. Why, Wi-fi issues

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC:  and and I need to remember to put my dog in the crate. So the doorbell ring and that never happens here. What kind of dog you have.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: She's a poodle and a King Charles Cavalier.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: so she is

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: really smart.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: like the trainer said to us, This dog's too smart for you, too, and and she is, and but she is the cuddly, most cuddly. Everybody, she just thinks everybody, you know, wants her on her lap, wants to watch her on their lap. She's a she's adorable. She's a good dog.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Alright. So I'm gonna dive back in. Get back, you know. Apologize no problem. So, Matt.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you've had lots of experience when it comes to having all kinds of you know family members in the business.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: When you look at

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that through the years. What are some of that? Your favorite things about having family members in the business?

 

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Matt McCauley: I mean, generally speaking, it's people you can trust that, you know. You like being around them. And

 

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Matt McCauley: it it's it's fun to build something. And so

 

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Matt McCauley: you know a lot of times if if you sit around and you're you're trying to share with people what's going on and what you're building. And they okay, that that seems nice.

 

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Matt McCauley: But when you're sitting around the table and you're had both been building it. Those are fun conversations and fun memories. And

 

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Matt McCauley: yeah, sometimes you get stuff. Spend the holidays with them because you've been around them the whole time. But II always thought that the you know the pros outweighed the cons in that regard.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Right? The you said your dad's back in the business now, but was out. But did I go Chris's dad came here for a bit back when my dad was still, here

 

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Matt McCauley: came for a few years, and then his best friend. They he had a similar relationship that Chris and I do.

 

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Matt McCauley: They go way back, and his best friend called and was like, I need you back. And so he went, went back with him, and they they were in the furniture business. So we did that for years. And then here, just in this past year. He was kind of looking to, you know, Swansong semi-retire. We're starting a new little division, and we're like, Hey, why don't you come back and help us get that off the ground? So it's been fun for for both, you know, for all parties. If you will

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: talk about. If you would

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: transition out for your dad, your parents, you know. What did?

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: What did what did that look like? What were the conversations? How did you get there?

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: How long ago was that? You know those kinds of things?

 

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Matt McCauley: Yeah, so let's see, this would have been 2. So we started the business and

 

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Matt McCauley: started getting our licenses in 99 and got our first container in 2,000, and then in 2,000

 

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Matt McCauley: 11,

 

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Matt McCauley: my dad was not showing up every day, kind of here and there started day trading a little bit and was, you know, the business kind of gotten a little bit too big for him to be able to manage all of it, which he's a control freak, so he likes to, you know. Be over everything, and it gotten started a little bit too big for for him to be able to do that

 

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Matt McCauley: so when he wasn't here, I was making the decisions, and so they had to be made, and I did. He wasn't always accessible, so I made him get to the end of the year, and we had a great year or banner year. But you know he's playing Monday morning quarterback on the decisions. But every time we'd walk through, hey, here's what I knew at the time. What would you have done differently? There wasn't anything he would do differently.

 

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Matt McCauley: So I said, Look, either show up every day

 

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Matt McCauley: or be okay with me making the call. But I'm not going to do this, you know. Monday morning quarterback thing for another year.

 

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Matt McCauley: So he said, Okay.

 

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Matt McCauley: you're, you know. You can do it this year.

 

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Matt McCauley: And so he did. And we were having a great year. And I think at that point he's like, All right.

 

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Matt McCauley: I'm Al. And so next thing you know.

 

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Matt McCauley: he just said, Hey, I think I'm

 

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Matt McCauley: I. I'm gonna bow out here, you know. It kinda reached a point where he wasn't really ready to have you know

 

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Matt McCauley: Chris and Shan, I share with my brother, brother, brother-in-law. The 3 of us are voices. We were starting to grow, you know. Get a little bit older. You know we're hitting our early thirties, and so we we had something to contribute, and I don't think he was quite ready. He was great with molding 20 year olds.

 

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Matt McCauley: and them doing exactly what he said, but he wasn't really ready to have

 

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Matt McCauley: other people in the business

 

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Matt McCauley: challenge him in a good way, and to provide other ways of doing it. And so I think that was he was like, All right. I'm out. And so he just decided to to bow out. And

 

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Matt McCauley: you know II wish you would have kind of just hung around could have been toward us, maybe from a little bit of a distance we could have like bought it from them over time. But, I don't think they really even trusted us to

 

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Matt McCauley: run it. I don't think that they believed in us that much. At least that's what my mother told me when

 

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Matt McCauley: you know when I brought it up, you know. Why'd you guys go? Private equity or not as well? I don't believe you guys are, gonna make it. But good luck to you.

 

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Matt McCauley: So that was kind of her parting words were.

 

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Matt McCauley: you know, I don't think you guys will follow the model that we laid out in front of you. And so I think you guys are going to fail. But hey, have fun doing it your way. So so they did, and that's, you know, hey? Their prerogative? And

 

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Matt McCauley: so but we've we've been fairly successful along the way, so it's alright.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: So go back to that for just a second work. Is it like it for you? This was like second hand cause. That's you were there, and you watch the whole thing. But so Mom and dad

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: sold their shares of private equity.

 

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Matt McCauley: Yeah, yeah. So

 

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Matt McCauley: like, I said we were, they were 70%, and then

 

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Matt McCauley: 10% for my sister and Chris and I each  But one of those were

 

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Matt McCauley: some of the things with

 

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Matt McCauley: my brother in law. The the family aspect was getting hard, and it was really hard for Shay. I mean, you're coming in now. You're the new son in law. and then working for my dad is not the easiest of tasks, especially as a son. I can only imagine what it was like as a son in law

 

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Matt McCauley: and I think the family dynamic. My dad didn't want the stress of the family dynamic. So so he left. And and then, like, I said it was one of those where

 

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Matt McCauley: they

 

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Matt McCauley: they were just looking for a clean break. So next thing you know, we had private equity groups coming in, we met with some of those we had a bunch of groups, and we were only 32, 33 at the time, all the entire management team

 

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Matt McCauley: so a fairly young group, and the business is doing about 2021,000,000 at the time.

 

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Matt McCauley: So a decent size. And we could tell a lot of these private equity group guys were not really. They were wanting to bring in a CEO. And you know, hey, these guys aren't young, you know. They're too young, they don't. They don't know enough. Even though we had a lot of collective experience. We had 50 years of experience between the management team, right, even though we were young. So

 

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Matt McCauley: I you know, admittingly, I tanked a few of those meetings that I could tell were his favorites, that maybe we're gonna provide the most money is the one thing I thought my dad was going to give me the opportunity to

 

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Matt McCauley: do it myself. so the guys that I could tell were going to just bring in a new CEO.

 

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Matt McCauley: I didn't do well in those meetings. We had a few, and Chris looked at me like. They asked you all these questions, and you said you didn't know. I know you know those answers. And I was like, Yeah, well, if they think I'm an idiot. Then they're gonna bring somebody else, and my dad won't, he won't take that offer.

 

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Matt McCauley: And so admittedly I did some of that. And so when when we found the one guy that was willing to let us run it. You know the the money was expensive, but we went for it, and so we went forward with that and So

 

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Matt McCauley: they bowed out, took their money, and

 

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Matt McCauley: walked away. And you know we spent the next X number, you know, 7, 8 years paying off private equity to to get them out

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: nice, and you did it.

 

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Matt McCauley: We did it. It was interesting. We doubled the business in a couple of years, and then really kind of hit. What was a No Man's Land where we should have grown a little bit more, could've been more profitable. We just outgrown our profitability, but didn't know that at the time.

 

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Matt McCauley: So we kind of stopped ourselves. Oh, no, we had a bad year we'll clean it up. What we really should have probably done is grown through that stage. But you know youth and didn't didn't know that. So we kind of stalled ourselves and that

 

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Matt McCauley: manner. So it took us a few more years to

 

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Matt McCauley: to pay off private equity. We actually had a great year in 2020, and and pivoted to medical, and actually were able to pay off private equity during that time. So that was nice.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: That's fabulous. You're as you're talking about your your father and the difference between you and dad, it's

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: it's really, really evident that for the founder of a company, and and again a lot of its personality as well, but for

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: many

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: a type, you know, founders, that it's like my way or the highway. Ii had somebody else. Say, Michael, you're asking me to go from benevolent dictator to fully functioning team. This is the hardest work I've ever done, but but I think it's fair to talk about.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: There's a transition process that needs to happen to get to where you are. You know some of the things that you said, you know, in the beginning we're out of a garage. And it's just I mean, that's Founder City, that is, we. You know, we are gonna roll up our sleeves, and we're gonna G Sd, we're gonna get stuff done. And

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: but then there's this, you know where? Where, now you're coaching. And he liked the coaching part coaching these youngsters and helping them because they're nobody's pushing back

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: at this point. It's like we're just gonna listen to the guy who's already successful. Just do what he says. but then there's that going from

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: a a it might not even be coaching. It might be consulting. Do what I say, and you really need to become that coach where the coach lets you go out and fail and make some mistakes

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and mentor you.

 

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Matt McCauley: Yeah, well, and it was weird, because he would very much let you go fail because he would give you a ton of leeway.

 

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Matt McCauley: But then, when it was done in a way that he wouldn't have done it. He really struggled with the different ways of doing things. Okay, so it was kind of his model, you know, he was

 

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Matt McCauley: part of the reason we never got the Nfl. And we didn't grow certain like he was never gonna spend a dollar on marketing. He was not gonna put his name out. He was not gonna do a lot of things, and we were saying, Hey, a good example would be, we wanted to spend like $1,000 and go to the

 

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Matt McCauley: National Championship game for the.

 

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Matt McCauley: you know, Nc. Double a championship game

 

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Matt McCauley: and the lot of the networking events and various things, and he's like, why would we spend money to go to a game? This dumb is saying, fine. I'll let you guys go this one time. So we go. And as we're just at a pre-party event.

 

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Matt McCauley: and we we sitting next to this other couple that's just there, we're, you know, grabbing some food. So we start talking, and I was talking to the wife. Come to find out. She's a Florida state fan like me, and so we're kinda hitting off. So Chris starts talking to the husband.

 

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Matt McCauley: we'll come to find out the husband. He was running sports authority at the time, which was an account we couldn't get into, and so he's, oh, what do you guys do? Oh, I bet we're buying a bunch of stuff from you and Chris like, no, actually, we don't sell, you guys he's like, well, why not?

 

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Matt McCauley: It's like, Well, I've called on, you know, this buyer, and

 

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Matt McCauley: he never returns my calls. And won't you know. Give us a meeting. He's like.

 

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Matt McCauley: well, that's going to change

 

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Matt McCauley: game is card. Next. You know, we're selling, like, you know, a week later we're selling sports authority. And so we were able to come back and say, Hey, look! These things matter! And so. But it was those type of things where we wanted to do something different.

 

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Matt McCauley: and it was like pulling teeth to get them to do it. And even though we had success and a bunch of the things we tried. The next go around was like pulling teeth sometimes, too, you know, it's kinda

 

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Matt McCauley: so. And I get it like, Hey, you've been successful doing it a certain way. You're slow to want to change. So I understand that. Yeah, no. 100. And that's me and my father's the whole existence. He's like you want to do what

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I got it.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Talk about. You know the the difference of managing. You have 200 team members today.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: How do you? You know? How do you like you said, Yeah, you can't. You can't have direct responsibility for all of those people any longer. What was the transition for you. And how did you go about making that transition?

 

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Matt McCauley: That's been a tough one for me. I actually, I'm I like being in the weeds. I like being a, you know, getting in there and and doing stuff. And that's I'm

 

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Matt McCauley: the fact that we tripled in the last couple of years. And there's been this rapid growth. It it kind of jumped on me that I had to change, and II was forced into it.

 

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Matt McCauley: And it was a tough transition, because it completely changes how you operate, what you do. And I, and really felt like in some regards.

 

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Matt McCauley: the the outward communication and and the

 

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Matt McCauley: the communicating from a distance becomes more important.

 

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Matt McCauley: You know, and I think I got a crash course during Covid. For a little bit of time, although we weren't shut down for very long.

 

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Matt McCauley: But I felt like some of my strengths

 

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Matt McCauley: were in the doing and the solving problems being and seeing the weeds and know what to fix, and then I was kind of removed from that. So I think it took me a little bit of time to.

 

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Matt McCauley: you know, really

 

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Matt McCauley: trust and pour into my direct reports, and and some of you know the next level down, and then

 

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Matt McCauley: just

 

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Matt McCauley: spend my time helping and building them up, and wherever they needed me and trusting it from there, and you know much like I had to look back at my dad and go. Oh, man.

 

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Matt McCauley: you're having to let people go and fail, and you know it's

 

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Matt McCauley: it's tough. But the toughest part was, I just like to get in there, do it. I don't have the not afforded the opportunity, the time to get in there and jump in and unload a container with somebody like I used to.

 

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Matt McCauley: so it is what it is. But yeah, it's kind of it's

 

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Matt McCauley: my CEO group, you know, being with this for 10 years help me to kind of change and mold my

 

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Matt McCauley: mindset and and habits, and the way I approach stuff so

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: great. Yeah, I tell people all the time that

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know. If you're not a member of Vistage, or Eo or Ypo, or all any of you know, scaling up. Or yeah, I'm a metronomics coach. It's get around other Ceos, get a coach that's working with Ceos, because

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: there's just too much to see and to know. And there's and if you think that you can do it all.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you're just missing something, and

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: so good on you. 10 years of vistage congrats. That's that's big, and I can't tell you the amount of Ceos that don't feel that they need to be surround themselves with

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: other people like them. And it's being the CEO is as often as you're surrounded by family and friends in your business.

 

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Matt McCauley: it still gets lonely making those decisions. Yep.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: when you look at the next 12 months, 24 months. What would you say? Your business? You know your priorities, our top 2 or 3 priorities for your company going forward?

 

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Matt McCauley: For us. We're right now we're looking at new facilities. We're in a couple of different warehouses. We're trying to combine that operationally. It would. You know, our business is already fairly complex. And so, to simplify it, I'm always talking about simplify if we can. So getting us under one roof would really help

 

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Matt McCauley: and then we're really branching out. And so some other areas. So we, the the vision out, you know, talked about that Rick. Chris's dad came in and helping to get started is

 

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Matt McCauley: the special what we're calling specialty business. So it's all the products we're already doing. But for the things that don't require license. So you know, a San Diego Zoo or the You know, the resort, the mountain resort or the beach resort that, you know, is gonna buy every year, and they're just looking to have their their logo thrown on. So we very much have, you know, lived in the world of where it's the contracts and the licenses and the protection

 

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Matt McCauley: so we've got a good business there. But then why not go get some of these other customers that we can service them just as well. And and there's, you know.

 

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Matt McCauley: almost no limit to that to a degree. So we just kind of. we got a lot of good people down here, and so maybe go chase some of that

 

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Matt McCauley: so that's kind of what we're doing just to to branch out a little bit. We think that could be as big as the license business. So

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: nice.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Do you mind if I ask? You know you? You said

 

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Matt McCauley: you know, back when Dad was retiring. And whatnot, or, you know, making that transition, you're about 20 million dollars, 21 million dollars. How big's the business today? This year we'll probably do right around 100 1,517 range. So we've we've grown about 30, 35 over last year's worst gonna finish.

 

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Matt McCauley: And and we're expecting a little bit more growth for next year. So

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and that growth and the be the ability to continue that growth

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: is only because of one thing.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and that's in my opinion you may disagree, but it's your ability to keep the culture and to keep good people around. It isn't about the product. It isn't about the systems and processes as much. We have to have all of those things.

 

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Matt McCauley: Oh, yeah, we. We have a great culture. Now we have the best people. It's a fun place to work.

 

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Matt McCauley: and I'm always telling people when that you know, hire them. It's like, Hey.

 

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Matt McCauley: we go through a fairly lengthy process of of hiring. And because one of those were a lot of these people, I'm going to spend more time with them than I get spend with with my family a lot of weeks. So why not have it be people you enjoy being around

 

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Matt McCauley: and so we really try and make sure that people fit the culture our core values. We. We preach them. They're up everywhere. We hire and fire on them.

 

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Matt McCauley: So it's it's one of those where it it. Can you say that one more time? What do you do? What do you do with the core values?

 

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Matt McCauley: Well, it makes it so easy, you know, the other day I had somebody come in, hey? This guy's not performing. I'm like, Okay, and I'll literally just start going down the core values I'm like, is he check? Which which one is he not checking the box on

 

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Matt McCauley: and come to find out? There's a couple of. He's not really checking the box on. Maybe he's not a fit here. and so just makes it real easy to make the decisions and to coach up.

 

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Matt McCauley: See where there's, you know, a gap there, but it makes sure that we're all rolling in the same direction. And so it just keeps it very simple. Yeah.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And you know, so you call core truce of logo brands. I happen to go and check it out. I'm a giant giant proponent of core values, core purpose, the vision of where we're going and getting everybody moving in the same direction.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: You do them, you know. Yours are are perfect, you know, honorable, improving team player, competitive, optimistic, nimble, gritty. And then you have a short sentence that defines that for you guys. And and I tell people this all the time that that little short sentence makes such a big difference so that people can understand exactly what that means. So

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: another and another one. You don't get to the level of business that you're at

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: without a really great culture.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: from the garage, from the garage to there, you know, to where you're at today. You don't do that without creating culture.

 

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Matt McCauley: And again, and as we get bigger, it's so important to be able to keep that culture consistent over more people, more locations make sure that that you know it stays consistent across all areas. Good!

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: How do you do that? There's a there's a great great question, for to you. Wh. What would you say? Are the 2 or 3 things that are the most important to help you keep the culture that you've already grown.

 

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Matt McCauley: I think we just hammer home. We've got the, you know, the Mission Board that's got where we're going, who we are, what we're about all of our team sync meetings. We cover it. I try and put little snippets out, you know. Sometimes the guys say it nauseam. They? They give me a hard time, because I'm always saying it, but at the same time they'll say, I'm glad you do

 

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Matt McCauley:  But

 

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Matt McCauley: yeah, it's kind of that. That was probably the hardest part about learning this new role, if you will for me. Is this the repetitive.

 

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Matt McCauley: constant repeating of the the same few things. II must say it once and move on and you know, twice seems repetitive for me. So why, why bother so that that was probably the biggest thing is just hammered it and making sure it's always right. And you know the people that are going to be leading the charge, making sure that they're

 

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Matt McCauley: always 100 knowing which way we want to go and how we want to do it. Yeah.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: it's parenting.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: If you have too many rules with kids. They don't have any rules. And and it's the same with with work. It it. It's not so much kids. It's just human beings. We can only handle so much, you know. So

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: keep it simple. 7 is is the Max. I tell people that's the Max you can have.

 

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Matt McCauley: Yeah, we simplified it down to one word. So they used to be almost like small phrases, and we changed it just this past year to one words I was kept trying to simplify, simplify, and so one of those were. The the reason why it was so hard is because our first one was pleasing to God for so many years, and I really hated the, you know, to just take it to one word and say God. And then people would know. And so

 

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Matt McCauley: but we we landed on honorable, and we still have it in the description of, you know, pleasing to God and just doing the right thing, and always tell people I'm like Look, while myself and the rest of my direct reports. And

 

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Matt McCauley: you know they're all professing believers. You don't have to believe what I believe. But it's important that you understand what I believe. So you know how I'm gonna make decisions, what we're gonna do.

 

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Matt McCauley: And if you read Scripture, and you know it. Then you'll never be surprised by anything I do down here.

 

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Matt McCauley: And if I'm in your shoes I don't want to be surprised. So you at least have that opportunity. Now, I'm also an Hr. Person's worst nightmare, because

 

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Matt McCauley: I don't really care about all the other stuff, and I just feel like I'm supposed to do what the Lord's telling me to do, and I let the rest play out. So there's that. But you know it's it's worked well for us so far.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: That's fabulous. Actually, that's it. Keeps like you said it lets everybody know where they're at and use, you know, use the core values use for you. It's, you know, if if it's not God's path, then you know, higher and fire based on those kinds of that thinking

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: makes it simple.

 

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Matt McCauley: We didn't let anybody in 2020. We didn't let anybody go. We didn't, you know. We paid everybody. We just kind of all side around. So hey, we

 

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Matt McCauley: think the Lord's gonna get us through this. And we all felt convicted that we didn't want to

 

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Matt McCauley: lay a bunch of people off. And so we just

 

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Matt McCauley: stuck with it and figured it out, and floor ended up

 

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Matt McCauley: bringing us through, and pretty well through. So it was. One of those were sometimes just be obedient, and you get more than what you deserve, and other times you get less to what you think you had coming. But

 

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Matt McCauley: it's all good.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Yeah, I have my vistage chair.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Said Michael. You're you're you're trying to control way too much. And so I have a a reminder that comes on my phone every day at 4 pm. You are where you're supposed to be right now.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And and for me, you know, that's my reminder to say

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I'm not in control. II need to allow you know my path to be laid out the way that it was supposed to by somebody greater than me. I tell people all the time, yeah, I think that what happens is.

 

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Matt McCauley: especially if you start a business. It's so easy to have a tight grip on it, and I always tell people I have a loose grip because it's not mine. It's the Lord's, and I'm just, you know, a steward of it, and for a period of time, and how long that is I don't know.

 

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Matt McCauley: and he may call me to go do something else one day, or I may be in this until I retire, and

 

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Matt McCauley: that's fine. But you know, if by keeping a looser grip on it, it makes the decisions a little easier. And you know little less stress that way.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Speaking of stress, what are the what are your stress points right now? So we know your your, your priority? And and what you've been doing? What are some of the what are some of the things that frustrates you right now, or cause you stress.

 

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Matt McCauley: Our biggest one has been cash, you know, with growth, you know, tripling, and it just eats up cash. And so it's one of those where

 

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Matt McCauley: we

 

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Matt McCauley: it's fun to grow. It's been great. It's been good growth. But you know, when you're having to put every dollar you make back in the business kind of like man.

 

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Matt McCauley: Like to take some of it home one day, you know. I don't know what day that'll be, but you know. And then we finally got a new bank in, and they doubled our line of credit, and that's helped a lot. But just kind of always that

 

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Matt McCauley: strain of just lot of great opportunities in front of us, and I hate having to turn down. You know

 

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Matt McCauley: anything that I would love to go chase. And there's been. It's good cause it forces us to be very picky. We get some good opportunities. But one of those were.

 

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Matt McCauley: you know, be nice to have a big stockpile and just go after whatever you want, right? But it's so for us. It's just been the last year is just making sure we've got the cash to grow, and you know we're we're in a much better spot now that we're a few years ago. But that's

 

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Matt McCauley: it's never fun when you're so always trying to.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: So how long ago, as the CEO did you? And and you may not know it is this term, I'll use it. But it, you know, as a coach it's the cash conversion cycle, you know. II have to go out and make sell something, and then we have to make it. Then we have to distribute it, and then we have to collect the cash right? There's the the cycle, real simple.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: But how long, you know, were you in the business before you started to realize? Oh, my goodness, growth sucks cash, and I gotta shorten that cycle as best I can.

 

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Matt McCauley: I think it was pretty early on cause. My dad was always

 

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Matt McCauley: about cash and about no debt and pay for stuff, and so we were doubling almost every year, and I granted this much smaller number, but but we were doubling, so we were always having those conversations a part of why he didn't chase certain things he didn't want out Chase, you know you can. You can grow yourself out of business. We almost have a few times

 

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Matt McCauley: and so I think it's always been there. And then I learned a lot through private equity, you know, sitting around those early meetings, and they're saying stuff and running. Zoom, you're like, wow!

 

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Matt McCauley: I need a better education here, right? You know. You leave every meeting. Go back. And Google half the acronyms that they threw out. And you know, diving into the numbers, and so learned a lot through all that, just

 

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Matt McCauley: forced to

 

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Matt McCauley: to learn all the things that maybe you didn't know you didn't know and so but but early on my dad, so when I was 10

 

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Matt McCauley: he put me on the envelope system, gave me a monthly allowance. I had to buy my own clothes.

 

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Matt McCauley: you know. Like if I want to go do something outside of it. I had to pay for it, save you know, X percent give X percent. And so like, so I, you know, from a very early age, I was managing my money. And so I he gave me a

 

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Matt McCauley: a really good foundation from that regard. My parents are always good about that.

 

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Matt McCauley: It, you know. It wasn't always fun is a 1011, 12 year old, you know. You want all your friends get new shoes, and I'm I'm not, and I didn't know how to manage my money as well, and they kind of just let me go and do it on my own. And so I didn't get a ton of

 

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Matt McCauley: maybe coaching along the way. although my personality I probably needed to to fail on my own

 

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Matt McCauley: but so II feel like I got a pretty good, you know. Idea what it was like. Pretty early. Nice

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: nice. Do you have kids yourself?

 

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Matt McCauley: I do. I got 11 and 13 year old, boys.

 

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Matt McCauley: And they play all the sports. And they're they're generally very, very good kids, although, you know.

 

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Matt McCauley: perfect.

 

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Matt McCauley: Yeah, we've gotten them in the warehouse, and you know, helping and doing different things, you know, since they started playing travel ball, and that that eats up a lot more time that it's kind of

 

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Matt McCauley: made it hard. But my thing is, hey, if you work hard and put in the work on that, then I'm willing to. you know, help you in the other areas. But you're gonna work one way or the other. So it's just a matter of what you

 

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Matt McCauley: you know. But my 11 year old just last week was like, Hey, Dad, can you set up a trading account for me? I really want to learn to trade stocks and so

 

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Matt McCauley: got him a dummy account. He's playing around with it, and he's he's that kid. So no telling

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that's fun. Alright

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: couple of curve balls, and then not big ones. Just off topic.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Favorite family tradition for your family.

 

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Matt McCauley: That's a good one.

 

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Matt McCauley: I don't know that we have a lot with my

 

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Matt McCauley: my family. I feel like ours been

 

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Matt McCauley: a lot of the stuff, really, that we've done around sports. We've started. So I do a a Bible study

 

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Matt McCauley: and so a lot of times. I'll take that, and we'll make that our church when we have baseball games on Sunday. And

 

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Matt McCauley: the boys have really really enjoyed that, and that's kind of been

 

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Matt McCauley: a new one that we started this past year because we just hated that we're always missing

 

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Matt McCauley: but that doesn't mean you can't stand the word. And so that's become kind of like the new one that's been really good and

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: doesn't matter where you are as long as you. As long as you're talking to me and doing and and sharing with others good for you. I love that

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC:  favorite books, as you, as you know. I know you can't be a leader without learning new things, but going through, you know, the last 25 years or so. You know what were some of the books that today you're like, they still stand the test of time and everything I've done.

 

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Matt McCauley: Yeah, it's funny. I actually created a list for, because I got asked so many times about different books. you know anything by Patrick Glencione is really good. And then

 

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Matt McCauley: the Rockefeller habits, which is the scaling up right. You know the the first one I found back when we first started the business, like the book, had just come out in early 2 thousands.

 

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Matt McCauley: and that was critical for our business, you know, bought that and brought to my dad, and like, Hey, we need this

 

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Matt McCauley: then obviously, traction came out and so, and scaling up as I've all of those I I've kind of taken a mixture of those 3 books for our mission boards. And they've been a great foundation.

 

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Matt McCauley:  you know. good to great, built to last all those like. Just, you know, a lot of the different execution. some some books that just kind of really help you as on as I sort of look at getting bigger and who failed, and why? And

 

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Matt McCauley: trying to make sure we don't repeat any of those mistakes.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Awesome. I'm a a metronomics. Coach Shannon was one of Vern's first coaches years ago. A matter of fact, like the book I wrote. Vern put a little note on the book for me, and and I just was. I just was having a conversation with him on Linkedin, thanking him for all the stuff

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that he's done through the years. I wouldn't be where I am if it wasn't for the work that he did to lay the groundwork with birthing of the Giants and scaling up and mastering the Rockefeller. Have it just awesome stuff.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I'd throw to you as you're going through and growing and doing the things that you're looking at for. Take a peek at Shannon's book. 3 Hag way. I think you get a lot out of that. She does. She does some great strategy work and and take a peek at that. And if you like that, whatsoever

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know we there, there's seminars and just learning that piece that we do. And then this is not what this was about, but it's it's her second book. So it's not even the the first or the you know, the the latest. She wrote the book Metronomics. But when you look at metronomics it's really designed for coaches to have that prescription to say, How do I work with my Ceos? What should I be expecting?

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: The other one that she's got out? There is the M game, and that's her latest book, and that's just a real simple.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know. Let me explain. Let me take scaling up, and Eos and all those things, and let me just give it, you know that's the starter book that you're handing your leaders to say I I'm just gonna give you an understanding of why we're doing these things. And that's end games. And

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: so great book the 3 head way, I think you'll get a lot out of, and I don't talk about it enough. I always forget how that that's like of all of her books. It's my favorite, because I love digging into strategy, and where so like Eos and traction give you all of those groundwork things to get everything done. But it sometimes.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know, it's like I need that strategy component. And that's where metronomics and 3 hag way will come in to really take that strategy to a different level.

 

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Matt McCauley: That's great. I'll check those out. Yeah.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC:  look at. You're all. Here's my last question. You're sitting in front of an audience of family businesses, all multi generational. They've worked with, you know, all of their different family members, and they're sitting there, you know, wondering.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Matt, what would you tell me to do about all my family members in here. What's the advice you're given to a group of family businesses?

 

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Matt McCauley: Have all the tough conversations as early as you can.

 

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Matt McCauley: all the stuff that you think could be an issue, or you think they might find as an issue and get it out on the table and decide, what are we going to do about this, and there were the things you think might come up and go if this happens, how do we want to handle it?

 

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Matt McCauley:  you know, I think about like Chris and I were 50 50 partners in some regards that can be

 

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Matt McCauley: difficult for people like.

 

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Matt McCauley: but our dynamic and our friendships kind of one in a million unique type of, you know

 

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Matt McCauley: friendship. And so he's like, Look. if you need to be 51. And I need to be 49. That's fine, because you're gonna make the final call, anyway.

 

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Matt McCauley: and he knows I've always got his best interest at heart and vice versa. And so it doesn't matter that we're 50 50 but I feel like we've had all those tough calls, and we know what we're gonna do in each scenario and I'd say, that's the one thing when I look at people that

 

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Matt McCauley: when they're struggling, my dad didn't want to talk about a lot of stuff

 

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Matt McCauley: he didn't. Wanna you know. Okay, that's that's a difficult topic. Let's just, you know, maybe that won't come up and we'll put it off to the side, and I feel like that's really worth a lot of the the issues that we ended up having were

 

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Matt McCauley: related to that.

 

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Matt McCauley: So have them all, you know. Get it out there and don't. Don't want to be emotional. Just find a common ground. And what are you gonna decide to do

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that you you just made me think of 2 books, you know. So one I've talked about before. It's called every family's business, and it's like the 6 or 12 questions that every family should be having around the business every single year, so that they're you're getting those tough conversations on the table.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And then the other one is just a book called Critical Conversations. It's like somebody that that it's hard to have these conversations. So I need a platform. I need a you know I need some coaching to get me through having these conversations so

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: awesome. Awesome advice. Really appreciate it. Matt Mccauley, from logo brands.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Really appreciate your time and appreciate you, sharing your experience through your family business

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and your time with your dad and all the family members

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: in the growth again, just sharing that piece alone. There's so many nuggets inside here. Some of them are the same as you know exactly. You can distill a lot of the shows that we do down, and you'll hear the culture culture culture piece coming through, and the growth of the CEO that you had to do. Those are a lot the same. But there's some, you know, some really great nuggets that you shared with us are totally different.

 

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Matt McCauley: I just want to say Thank you, and we appreciate it. Well, Michael, thank you for having me on really enjoyed it.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Thank you. Everybody for listening to another episode of the family biz show. I am Michael Columbus from family wealth and legacy in Rochester, New York. We look forward to sharing more with you on the next episode. Have a great day. Everybody.

 

 

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Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances.

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