Broker Check


Episode 17: Family Business Unscripted

In this episode of the Family Biz Show, Michael Palumbos, the host, engages in an intimate and revealing discussion about his family's business, wealth, and legacy. The episode features Michael's parents, Marty and Maureen Palumbos, who share insights into their journey of building and passing on the family wealth and business.

Marty, a former family wealth advisor, and Maureen discuss their roles in the family's financial decisions and the importance of estate planning. They highlight how their decisions are influenced by their desire to pass on their values to subsequent generations, emphasizing the significance of preserving family wealth with a purpose.

The episode also delves into the concept of family business unscripted, aiming to showcase real and live family business experiences. Michael and his parents talk about the challenges and rewards of managing family wealth and how they approach estate planning to ensure their family values are embedded in their wealth distribution.

The discussion further explores the dynamics of family meetings, where they discuss the essence of their annual family vacation (PFV) and its impact on family cohesion and values. Marty shares his experience in wealth advising and how the family has dealt with different family members' needs, highlighting the importance of trust and open communication.

Overall, the episode offers a transparent look into how one family navigates the complexities of wealth management, estate planning, and family dynamics, providing listeners with insights and lessons that can be applied to their family businesses and wealth management practices.

Watch the entire episode!

Episode 17 Transcript


1

00:00:03.030 --> 00:00:14.250

Michael Palumbos: Well welcome everybody to the family biz show. I am your host Michael Columbus from family wealth and legacy in Rochester, New York. Welcome. Thanks for joining us today.

 

2

00:00:15.690 --> 00:00:22.290

Michael Palumbos: Today's pretty special for me. I am excited and nervous all at the same time.

 

3

00:00:23.880 --> 00:00:38.850

Michael Palumbos: I have invited my parents, Marty and Maureen Columbus to join us and with Courtney polan Courtney and I have known each other through the purposeful planning Institute for over 10 years now.

 

4

00:00:39.990 --> 00:00:43.380

Michael Palumbos: And my parents. Obviously I've known my whole entire life. So

 

5

00:00:44.790 --> 00:01:06.060

Michael Palumbos: Love. Um, this is what's really neat is, you know, dad was a family wealth advisor, long before I was working with family owned businesses and today I serve many of those same families. We're one family. We're now talking to the fourth generation. And we've served them right from day one.

 

6

00:01:07.470 --> 00:01:17.730

Michael Palumbos: You know, for generations. We've served between the two of us. And this is kind of fun and interesting when dad retired. I bought the family business portion of his practice.

 

7

00:01:18.750 --> 00:01:19.680

Michael Palumbos: And mom.

 

8

00:01:20.880 --> 00:01:23.790

Michael Palumbos: When we were working on the estate plan.

 

9

00:01:24.810 --> 00:01:31.290

Michael Palumbos: Both dad and I, you know, having been estate planners and wealth advisors in the arena.

 

10

00:01:32.610 --> 00:01:53.610

Michael Palumbos: You know, came up with some great you know ideas and plans and based on the pre show prep call that we did a week ago. Mom said, oh, so I get to maybe change some of this stuff. I think you guys kind of ganged up on me as we're doing this so I'm feeling a little nervous but excited

 

11

00:01:55.380 --> 00:01:58.020

Michael Palumbos: Welcome to the three of you, I'm

 

12

00:01:59.100 --> 00:02:01.770

Michael Palumbos: Martin mom and dad Morning. Morning, you know,

 

13

00:02:02.820 --> 00:02:14.070

Michael Palumbos: I you know you agreed to do this hesitantly and and I appreciate your trust in both myself and Courtney in a moment. I'm going to, once I do turn this over to Courtney

 

14

00:02:14.550 --> 00:02:23.250

Michael Palumbos: I'm going to be, you know, I'm going to be more not the host and we're going to allow Courtney to facilitate everything. This is an experiment that I believe

 

15

00:02:23.730 --> 00:02:41.670

Michael Palumbos: Could have legs. I really believe that allowing live, you know, that's why we call this family business unscripted because we're going to be talking about the Columbus family business. You know that not the business itself, but the business of our family and

 

16

00:02:42.720 --> 00:02:48.270

Michael Palumbos: I believe that a lot of family businesses out there and families of affluence.

 

17

00:02:49.530 --> 00:03:05.790

Michael Palumbos: May not take that step necessary to bring in somebody like Courtney to facilitate they're really good at bringing in the attorney, the accountant, even their financial advisor, but they sometimes these you know the the

 

18

00:03:07.020 --> 00:03:14.850

Michael Palumbos: Family business coaches or the family wealth coaches, they don't know what they do. And that's what I really wanted to bring together. So this is live.

 

19

00:03:15.150 --> 00:03:24.000

Michael Palumbos: We, you know, we don't know what's going to happen and Maureen Columbus gets the final say whether this recording ever makes it out to the podcast.

 

20

00:03:25.170 --> 00:03:41.700

Michael Palumbos: So, you know, with that. Mom and Dad, why don't you take a few minutes and talk about you know yourselves. Your journey with family businesses and then. But more importantly, you know, your journey with you know the give some background to what we're gonna be talking about with PSP and in

 

21

00:03:42.750 --> 00:03:47.340

Michael Palumbos: The palomas family, and then I'll have Courtney jump in and introduce himself.

 

22

00:03:48.540 --> 00:03:51.480

Marty Palumbos: Okay, have a word or two. No worries. Okay.

 

23

00:03:52.620 --> 00:04:05.310

Marty Palumbos: Um, as Michael said I you know I was in the business of working with families and their own estate planning for 41 years before he bought out a portion of my practice.

 

24

00:04:06.330 --> 00:04:24.150

Marty Palumbos: And specifically, the portion that worked with family businesses. And while you know I dealt with 300 various clients over the years. When we honed it down to the family business portion of my business was about eight families.

 

25

00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:33.480

Marty Palumbos: Probably close to 75 different people, but from eight different families where I worked, starting with

 

26

00:04:33.870 --> 00:04:43.020

Marty Palumbos: The founders of the business to their kids to their kids, kids. And as Michael saying now he is on to working with the fourth generation.

 

27

00:04:43.230 --> 00:04:54.150

Marty Palumbos: Of some of those people I know who those kids were when they were born, but they were little kids now they're adults and Michael was working with fourth generation. So I understand that.

 

28

00:04:54.750 --> 00:05:08.100

Marty Palumbos: It's tough to get people thinking about this, especially when you're running a business and you're right in the middle of payroll and taxes and job bids and everything that you have to do to run a company

 

29

00:05:09.330 --> 00:05:21.090

Marty Palumbos: But it's important to settle back in and have a conversation without the stress of business operations or family operations for that matter just talk about what's important to you.

 

30

00:05:22.350 --> 00:05:25.440

Marty Palumbos: I think we've done a lot of that.

 

31

00:05:26.580 --> 00:05:35.790

Marty Palumbos: I was telling Michael and coordinate earlier. I went through our state documents which frankly we just updated in August of 2018

 

32

00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:49.890

Marty Palumbos: So it's not like I had a little too much dust off of them to read them and they're, you know, they are well thought out good products that accomplish the kinds of things we want to do to preserve the resources we put together.

 

33

00:05:52.200 --> 00:06:00.660

Marty Palumbos: And if there's any discussion and disagreement between the two of us. It's, um, why don't we just give them the money.

 

34

00:06:01.860 --> 00:06:13.470

Marty Palumbos: You know, which has been, you know, kind of a bone of contention back and forth. And we use trusts for the purpose of protecting resources for our children and ultimately grandchildren.

 

35

00:06:13.890 --> 00:06:26.850

Marty Palumbos: I'm just having been through many a life situation where divorces occur and legal problems develop a person's personally held assets can be

 

36

00:06:27.510 --> 00:06:43.230

Marty Palumbos: wasted away through either no fault of their own, or all their fault, but wasted away on the less and the use of trusts in an estate plan brings a level of protection potential protection to the state.

 

37

00:06:44.280 --> 00:06:53.400

Marty Palumbos: So from a legal perspective, that's the kind of documentation that's in place right now set aside the legal on one of the things that has marked

 

38

00:06:54.450 --> 00:07:07.410

Marty Palumbos: The last 20 years for us actually 21 years for us is something we call PF v, which is Columbus family vacation and we just concluded.

 

39

00:07:09.390 --> 00:07:13.320

Marty Palumbos: And this started as all kids left the house.

 

40

00:07:14.490 --> 00:07:27.120

Marty Palumbos: 21 years ago we hadn't seen them and they hadn't seen each other for a while. So we got together, actually, just for a great grandma's birthday party over a long weekend.

 

41

00:07:27.570 --> 00:07:39.570

Marty Palumbos: And it was the first time any of them had seen each other in quite a while we have kids in California kids in New York City kids in Maine. So, you know, the only time to get together as we figured we'd seen that holiday time

 

42

00:07:40.020 --> 00:07:48.600

Marty Palumbos: But obviously, they all have families of their own as well on the other side of the couple so we didn't all have them home and holiday time so

 

43

00:07:49.020 --> 00:07:56.310

Marty Palumbos: This one weekend was the time when everybody was here and we had such a great time. We said, let's do it again next year.

 

44

00:07:56.910 --> 00:08:09.150

Marty Palumbos: And we did, only instead of a weekend we made it a long weekend. They came on Thursday didn't get home, till Tuesday and that day event ended and said, Hey, let's do a whole week next year.

 

45

00:08:09.570 --> 00:08:19.890

Marty Palumbos: And so now for 21 years we have taken a full week and bring them all together. And a lot of this is driven by the fact that

 

46

00:08:20.280 --> 00:08:31.980

Marty Palumbos: You know, in the financial services industry. We were the beneficiaries of a lot of very entertaining exciting travel as incentives for what it was that we for production.

 

47

00:08:32.490 --> 00:08:47.190

Marty Palumbos: You know you deliver this, you go to Hawaii and deliver this, you go to South Africa you deliver this, you go to Switzerland and with Morgan. I have been all over the world on company trips, as a result of the business that we did with Lincoln.

 

48

00:08:48.570 --> 00:09:07.620

Marty Palumbos: I wanted to create that same experience for our kids. None of them except Michael are in the same industry, none of whom have exposure to that kind of opportunity for travel. So we oftentimes will rent a great big house and it's getting more and more difficult to find a house big enough.

 

49

00:09:08.910 --> 00:09:22.950

Marty Palumbos: You know, five years ago, traveling the world with the kids. Yeah, no, we find is plenty of places in in the United States that are well worth going to. We've been to the Outer Banks. We've been to Long Island and

 

50

00:09:23.490 --> 00:09:30.630

Marty Palumbos: On the Montauk, we've been to Toronto. Okay, so we've been a lots of places and the kids value it

 

51

00:09:31.710 --> 00:09:52.680

Marty Palumbos: We concluded, two weeks ago and Michael took us through an interesting discussion among the group about what you think about this. How do you view P amp D is it important to you. You want to see it to continue and there were differences of opinion. Some people said, I'm not so sure.

 

52

00:09:54.330 --> 00:10:05.970

Marty Palumbos: And others said it's very important to us. And it's especially important to the younger generation. It's great for the kids to see each other cousins who wouldn't see each other. Otherwise, so

 

53

00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:21.030

Marty Palumbos: You know we back to just a legal perspective, we created a Life Insurance Trust. A few years ago, and put a big life insurance policy in there to single. The guy says first guy, so it's on me.

 

54

00:10:21.570 --> 00:10:31.890

Marty Palumbos: I'm at my passing that trust will receive a block of capital and at the time we created, frankly, it was a day when there was an estate tax.

 

55

00:10:32.430 --> 00:10:41.190

Marty Palumbos: It was critical. You had a big insurance policy, you didn't want it own by the insured, or would be included in the taxable estate.

 

56

00:10:41.820 --> 00:10:51.780

Marty Palumbos: Well, I'd like to tell you we've got $22 million, but we don't. So the estate tax avoidance implications of the trust.

 

57

00:10:52.200 --> 00:11:04.410

Marty Palumbos: don't exist anymore. But the idea of a pool of money coming together and allowing it to fund PSV on into the future is an idea that we kicked around

 

58

00:11:04.860 --> 00:11:11.760

Marty Palumbos: And frankly, that I think that's where some of the the discussion came from it. The meeting as well, why don't we just take the money and then we'll pay for it.

 

59

00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:22.590

Marty Palumbos: Which okay that's an option, unless you don't want to go, in which case you just got the money and go away. So you know I we place a priority and getting everybody together.

 

60

00:11:23.190 --> 00:11:34.890

Marty Palumbos: We're not so old that we're going to be gone anytime soon. So the, the ones who maybe had challenges about whether they think it's a good idea. Now 10 years now. They may feel radically different.

 

61

00:11:35.550 --> 00:11:43.080

Marty Palumbos: And the ones who value with so much. Who are now eight and 10 years old will maybe the point. Same place their parents are now saying here.

 

62

00:11:43.770 --> 00:12:00.990

Marty Palumbos: So it will evolve over time and Michael said I was maybe not so happy with the estate plan because I am a believer in looking at what has already been created, which at that time was very good, but

 

63

00:12:02.490 --> 00:12:10.860

Marty Palumbos: every few years, you should look at it and update it, and possibly change it. I don't like the fact that it's set in stone.

 

64

00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:14.760

Marty Palumbos: And so here we are.

 

65

00:12:17.250 --> 00:12:18.090

Michael Palumbos: Thank you both so

 

66

00:12:18.180 --> 00:12:20.070

Marty Palumbos: Much information for me. But go ahead.

 

67

00:12:20.130 --> 00:12:20.850

Marty Palumbos: Now you're on.

 

68

00:12:21.930 --> 00:12:24.090

Marty Palumbos: Feel free to cut us off, or if offers

 

69

00:12:28.350 --> 00:12:31.170

Courtney Pullen: Michael, any last comments before we transition

 

70

00:12:31.560 --> 00:12:43.200

Michael Palumbos: Um, yeah, it was, it was interesting. I just share with everybody that you know my family was open to carving out some time for a family meeting.

 

71

00:12:43.710 --> 00:13:00.900

Michael Palumbos: And we had it facilitated for about an hour and a half of it with a person who took the whole family through the disk profiles. So we had a really interesting conversation about what that meant, and

 

72

00:13:02.040 --> 00:13:13.290

Michael Palumbos: Probably at least 50% of the family was hesitant and saying, what are we doing this for, I don't get it. And 100% of the family left saying

 

73

00:13:13.620 --> 00:13:24.330

Michael Palumbos: This was really good. I'm glad we did it. So, and that's see that seems to be you know the the flavor that we that I see in working with just about any flick family.

 

74

00:13:24.570 --> 00:13:30.720

Michael Palumbos: Is this first time of doing something different is like, what are we doing this for and it's scary.

 

75

00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:42.540

Michael Palumbos: And then it was really neat to watch my siblings and hear them as they came up afterwards and said, really appreciate you thinking and caring enough about the family to push us to do something that was uncomfortable so

 

76

00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:45.180

Marty Palumbos: It went very, very, very good.

 

77

00:13:47.250 --> 00:14:02.250

Michael Palumbos: Thank. Thank you. I'm Courtney, what I'd like to, you know, take a, take a few minutes and then just tell us about your journey. How did you end up where you are today. And then from that point forward, you can just roll with it and show is yours.

 

78

00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:10.920

Courtney Pullen: Okay, let me try to do it. Less than a minute, so we can just walk right into this. Okay. I'm originally trained as a psychotherapist

 

79

00:14:11.940 --> 00:14:33.420

Courtney Pullen: Left that practice 2530 years ago and I'm all the time. My career has been focused primarily just on family closely held businesses in the family enterprise. So the category that I will be in would be a family wealth coach or family wealth consultant. So Marina. I'm not your estate attorney.

 

80

00:14:35.370 --> 00:14:42.930

Courtney Pullen: Party was saying you're wondering about who I was as we're waiting for you to come down at Michael, I just want to start out by saying

 

81

00:14:43.560 --> 00:14:47.970

Courtney Pullen: Something to you that I appreciate your commitment to your audience.

 

82

00:14:48.630 --> 00:15:00.600

Courtney Pullen: Because when you put launched this idea about let's try to experiment as some kind you didn't know it was may end up like this, um, you said, I just wanted to create a great learning

 

83

00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:16.440

Courtney Pullen: Experience for my audience and let's brainstorm about what the possibilities are then here we are. A few weeks later with your parents and your, you know, in you. So my hats off to you a your openness to doing this and Morty Marie.

 

84

00:15:17.910 --> 00:15:35.760

Courtney Pullen: Thank you so much, it from a similar perspective, I think that people learn a lot more from you all that are living it then some consultant like me talking about best practices from my vantage point so

 

85

00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:43.440

Courtney Pullen: Blessings to the two of you for taking your time and your openness sister to be in this conversation, which is ultimately all it's going to be

 

86

00:15:44.220 --> 00:16:07.230

Courtney Pullen: So what I'd like to start with is that so often when we're working on an estate plan. We get so in the weeds about the the right techniques and the proper vehicles for avoiding taxes and so forth. This is you to step back from your estate plan, how would you describe the purpose of it.

 

87

00:16:11.220 --> 00:16:11.880

Marty Palumbos: Um,

 

88

00:16:13.110 --> 00:16:26.340

Marty Palumbos: My sense would be to take the resources, we've built in allow it to go to the next generations with our values embedded in it.

 

89

00:16:28.410 --> 00:16:30.360

Marty Palumbos: We encourage

 

90

00:16:32.490 --> 00:16:55.230

Marty Palumbos: Giving and our kids are all givers of one kind or another. And we have been in the giving mode for years and years and, as opposed to giving away and do what you want with it the idea of carrying on what's important to us is what I'm hoping for. Nice.

 

91

00:16:56.490 --> 00:17:00.270

Courtney Pullen: Feature that was beautiful, Marty. THANK YOU, MARIA. What would you add to that.

 

92

00:17:01.410 --> 00:17:16.410

Marty Palumbos: Um, we worked very, very, very hard thing business. Well, I wasn't personally involved in the business and I held up the home front and

 

93

00:17:17.610 --> 00:17:28.590

Marty Palumbos: And part time jobs and volunteering and caretaking of elderly family. Wow. Marty was a workaholic, and

 

94

00:17:31.020 --> 00:17:39.720

Marty Palumbos: When you know how hard you worked. You want what you get saved to go for good purposes and

 

95

00:17:41.760 --> 00:17:51.210

Marty Palumbos: I'm all in favor of leaving my children. The money that we have earned. But I don't mind a spoil them by

 

96

00:17:53.280 --> 00:18:04.590

Marty Palumbos: Making life too easy for them because you know we learn through our own mistakes in our own life path and

 

97

00:18:07.590 --> 00:18:12.090

Marty Palumbos: So you have to be careful how much you give to your children, but

 

98

00:18:14.370 --> 00:18:25.110

Marty Palumbos: I think we need to, you know, since these things have come up with our kids, we probably need to have meetings with our children individually and

 

99

00:18:27.390 --> 00:18:35.370

Marty Palumbos: Have some personal conversation about what happens after we die, and how they see things

 

100

00:18:36.360 --> 00:18:42.600

Courtney Pullen: Morning. I'm wondering, I'm going to paraphrase what Marty said about the purpose to

 

101

00:18:44.040 --> 00:18:48.720

Courtney Pullen: To make sure that our values are carried on to the next generation.

 

102

00:18:49.800 --> 00:18:57.300

Courtney Pullen: At us giving us an example that is that something that has a resonance for you as well. Yeah.

 

103

00:18:57.600 --> 00:19:10.680

Marty Palumbos: Yes. Um, we're always givers. I'm more giver to the family and charities, but not he's a bigger given to charities than family.

 

104

00:19:11.580 --> 00:19:23.670

Courtney Pullen: Understood. Now I know that weren't use that as an example about giving. Is there any other value marine there for you. It's just a core essential value like giving to the family or to charity.

 

105

00:19:26.070 --> 00:19:28.080

Marty Palumbos: And that by me again. I didn't understand that.

 

106

00:19:28.560 --> 00:19:34.830

Courtney Pullen: Is there another value. In addition to giving that feels to

 

107

00:19:39.450 --> 00:19:40.050

Marty Palumbos: Time.

 

108

00:19:41.280 --> 00:19:43.440

Marty Palumbos: Time spent with

 

109

00:19:45.660 --> 00:19:48.210

Marty Palumbos: Our best friends, our kids.

 

110

00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:55.740

Marty Palumbos: And I just love to be around them and watch the kids and

 

111

00:19:57.660 --> 00:20:06.690

Marty Palumbos: Many people don't want to give time and, you know, so that's that's where family vacation comes in.

 

112

00:20:08.070 --> 00:20:08.850

Marty Palumbos: And, you know, just

 

113

00:20:09.930 --> 00:20:18.660

Courtney Pullen: I'm so appreciative of you, adding that value that time spent together because that's where my mind went to was the family vacation.

 

114

00:20:20.190 --> 00:20:23.490

Courtney Pullen: And what it sounds like it's glue for the family.

 

115

00:20:24.570 --> 00:20:27.600

Courtney Pullen: It underscores and important value for the tour, you

 

116

00:20:29.220 --> 00:20:38.250

Marty Palumbos: Know horse, your children, you know, if some of them don't. I was surprised that some of them might not want to do that but

 

117

00:20:40.470 --> 00:20:46.020

Marty Palumbos: That's why I figure we need to have individual conversations with them. Yeah.

 

118

00:20:46.080 --> 00:20:47.910

Courtney Pullen: Absolutely Emery to

 

119

00:20:49.260 --> 00:20:57.270

Courtney Pullen: We're going to get to that part of the conversation towards the end, which is what needs to be adjusted or changed or reconsidered. So

 

120

00:20:57.930 --> 00:21:01.200

Courtney Pullen: We'll have ample opportunity to get to that conversation.

 

121

00:21:01.710 --> 00:21:13.680

Courtney Pullen: I'm wondering about, and Michael. I'd like to include you now this particular question is, when you think about the the work that you've done on your estate plan. Up to this point.

 

122

00:21:14.040 --> 00:21:23.250

Courtney Pullen: What has gone well or worked well because I'm impressed by the thoughtful this that's gone into it. So we're just off the top of your head. What's worked well.

 

123

00:21:26.130 --> 00:21:30.930

Marty Palumbos: Well, we had card documents which isn't true in every situation.

 

124

00:21:32.310 --> 00:21:39.090

Marty Palumbos: You know I'm done within two years of where we sit right now. David documentation and that

 

125

00:21:40.950 --> 00:21:46.920

Marty Palumbos: You know, it reflects kind of a current view of things. And there's nothing in there that

 

126

00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:53.490

Marty Palumbos: Doesn't still accomplish what we want to. So that's certainly going well.

 

127

00:21:54.960 --> 00:22:06.360

Marty Palumbos: What hasn't gone well is exactly what Maureen said is we probably have a need to have a conversation with each of the kids probably on their own, as opposed to with spouses.

 

128

00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:19.530

Marty Palumbos: Because there are provisions in your state document which protect the assets for our kids and, you know, our family is not

 

129

00:22:20.490 --> 00:22:34.560

Marty Palumbos: Exempt from divorces in marriage problems and our priorities. While there are kids that come from marriages and we're connected to them. Our chief priority are our own children. So

 

130

00:22:35.370 --> 00:22:44.850

Marty Palumbos: They need to understand the protections that are in there you know the the powers. We have put into the trust allow them to unwind it in the stroke of a pen.

 

131

00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:57.450

Marty Palumbos: So helping them understand why they shouldn't unwind the protections that are there is a conversation that you need to have about 50 times before it really sinks in. And

 

132

00:22:59.340 --> 00:23:07.440

Courtney Pullen: Now Martin. I'll make you and worrying a deal is that I'm keeping notes on the what needs to be adjusted or change.

 

133

00:23:07.830 --> 00:23:21.600

Courtney Pullen: On but I'd like to stay with the original question of. First, let's talk about what has worked well. So I've got you got current documents which we all know the industry is pretty impressive in itself. Right.

 

134

00:23:22.650 --> 00:23:24.900

Courtney Pullen: What else would you say has worked well.

 

135

00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:28.200

Marty Palumbos: We trust our financial planner.

 

136

00:23:30.180 --> 00:23:30.540

Courtney Pullen: Yeah.

 

137

00:23:30.990 --> 00:23:36.570

Marty Palumbos: Good one. Yeah, if you don't trust your financial planner, you're in a bad position. Yeah.

 

138

00:23:37.620 --> 00:23:42.060

Marty Palumbos: I'm frankly, Courtney. That probably is the key.

 

139

00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:51.330

Marty Palumbos: Ingredient in the success of my business over the years that state and Maureen just made could come from.

 

140

00:23:52.110 --> 00:24:07.890

Marty Palumbos: Virtually every one of my clients. And if that didn't come from them. They weren't a client of mine anymore and I wasn't able to continue serving them I'd find a way to move them on to somewhere else. So that, that's that really has gone very well.

 

141

00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:22.830

Courtney Pullen: Well, thank you for being over it about it away, what I would call the secret sauce, not only of your estate plan. But if you're growing your business that that that level of trust was just a cornerstone for you.

 

142

00:24:24.360 --> 00:24:38.070

Courtney Pullen: What else would you say in Michael, you have a really interesting vantage point, obviously, you're in the family and you're a trusted advisor in the family and outside the family. What else would you say it's gone well

 

143

00:24:39.210 --> 00:24:40.140

Michael Palumbos: Um,

 

144

00:24:41.580 --> 00:24:47.520

Michael Palumbos: I would say the the willingness to think differently.

 

145

00:24:49.290 --> 00:24:54.300

Michael Palumbos: Has been a really good thing. You know, Mom. Like, she said trusted us

 

146

00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:56.430

Michael Palumbos: And

 

147

00:24:57.660 --> 00:25:05.730

Michael Palumbos: I want to get to the things that need to find. I want to stay away from what needs to be fine tuning. So I'm trying really hard to just the fact that, you know,

 

148

00:25:07.560 --> 00:25:25.500

Michael Palumbos: 10 years of being with the purposeful planning Institute and knowing what those those two core values. I grew up with them, you know, and so well is listening to their and knowing their core values and being able to help them with that.

 

149

00:25:27.150 --> 00:25:31.410

Michael Palumbos: You know, which we still you know the the families that I serve today.

 

150

00:25:31.740 --> 00:25:39.060

Michael Palumbos: Outside of this family. We do the same thing we want to find out what are those core values to make sure that we use them as the litmus test to the planning.

 

151

00:25:39.390 --> 00:25:48.510

Michael Palumbos: work that we're doing because it's their core values that matter not not ours. Otherwise, every one of my clients would have a trust to start, you know, their family vacation.

 

152

00:25:50.490 --> 00:25:51.690

Michael Palumbos: That's not the case.

 

153

00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:55.290

Michael Palumbos: Well,

 

154

00:25:55.620 --> 00:26:05.970

Courtney Pullen: Great add to the list of what's working well I've got current docs. We trust our financial plan or willingness to think differently and really staying true to your core values.

 

155

00:26:06.600 --> 00:26:10.980

Marty Palumbos: It's a relief to have some kind of plan.

 

156

00:26:12.150 --> 00:26:14.070

Marty Palumbos: A good plan in place.

 

157

00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:27.210

Marty Palumbos: But I've heard so many horror stories through the years of people that don't have these things in place and you know we've helped people that

 

158

00:26:28.530 --> 00:26:43.080

Marty Palumbos: Are dangling and don't know what to do. So it's peaceful to know that we have a plan and it might not be perfect, but

 

159

00:26:44.100 --> 00:26:47.550

Marty Palumbos: It's as good as we can get it at the time that we did it.

 

160

00:26:48.690 --> 00:27:01.680

Courtney Pullen: Marine, I'm going to really underscore something what you just said is that I remember when I first started working with family businesses, my uncle had independent insurance company.

 

161

00:27:02.130 --> 00:27:09.720

Courtney Pullen: And he knew exactly what I did for a living. And we'd have breakfast once a month and just chat and I asked him about his estate plan.

 

162

00:27:10.470 --> 00:27:13.320

Courtney Pullen: And he said, Oh, I'm going to do it on the golf course.

 

163

00:27:14.310 --> 00:27:23.520

Courtney Pullen: And I'm like, what does that mean, uncle, Harold. He goes, Well I, I just don't want it to deal with all the complicated variables that are not to mention your and

 

164

00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:28.110

Courtney Pullen: So I'm just gonna let the attorneys, deal with it after I pass

 

165

00:27:28.830 --> 00:27:38.490

Courtney Pullen: And obviously he was trying to be light hearted about it, but he was serious. The same time and that's the something that we know and the industry's that's the norm.

 

166

00:27:38.850 --> 00:27:53.460

Courtney Pullen: people avoid working on their estate plan because they don't want to do the hard work and the emotional churn that it creates so my hats off to your for what you just said you have a plan and that's that's remarkable. Yeah.

 

167

00:27:53.550 --> 00:28:07.710

Marty Palumbos: I'm a big believer in life insurance and estate planning because my first husband Michaels natural father died at 28 so

 

168

00:28:09.510 --> 00:28:10.980

Marty Palumbos: We didn't have much

 

169

00:28:12.150 --> 00:28:12.540

Marty Palumbos: And

 

170

00:28:14.370 --> 00:28:19.140

Marty Palumbos: Knowing that death can happen at any time we never know.

 

171

00:28:20.190 --> 00:28:24.060

Marty Palumbos: made me a believer and all of this planning.

 

172

00:28:24.660 --> 00:28:25.530

Marty Palumbos: You know, I'd love

 

173

00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:26.880

Marty Palumbos: To take

 

174

00:28:27.360 --> 00:28:27.960

Children.

 

175

00:28:29.550 --> 00:28:36.780

Courtney Pullen: Yeah yeah I that must have made it very real for you, more reading the importance of doing this work.

 

176

00:28:37.830 --> 00:28:39.240

Courtney Pullen: Well, thank you for sharing that.

 

177

00:28:40.770 --> 00:28:55.950

Courtney Pullen: Now, the next question is going to sound a little bit unusual, but I want to say it nonetheless. When you think about this list of what's worked well. I'm curious about hope you have to appreciate for that.

 

178

00:29:01.650 --> 00:29:12.540

Marty Palumbos: Marty, of course started it, and then Michael pushed. Yeah. Because, you know, the old story about the cobbler and his

 

179

00:29:13.560 --> 00:29:15.540

Marty Palumbos: Kids going without shoes.

 

180

00:29:16.710 --> 00:29:28.080

Marty Palumbos: While we were you know in better shape than most people to get it all wrapped up it was Michael pushing, pushing, pushing to

 

181

00:29:29.460 --> 00:29:33.300

Marty Palumbos: You know, finish. Finish everything and

 

182

00:29:35.310 --> 00:29:38.670

Marty Palumbos: In Marty used to do that. Also, so

 

183

00:29:40.530 --> 00:29:41.580

Marty Palumbos: You know, it's

 

184

00:29:43.020 --> 00:29:49.230

Courtney Pullen: A thank you for that. Because that's exactly what I wanted to kind of surface and relates to the last story. I just shared

 

185

00:29:49.770 --> 00:30:05.850

Courtney Pullen: Is that my hat's off and Morty for initiating this process because again it's unusual. It takes a lot of courage and often tenacity, just to keep the ball rolling, so Well done, Marty and

 

186

00:30:07.830 --> 00:30:08.010

Marty Palumbos: For

 

187

00:30:08.040 --> 00:30:09.090

Courtney Pullen: Me, I

 

188

00:30:09.540 --> 00:30:09.720

Marty Palumbos: Think

 

189

00:30:10.080 --> 00:30:12.300

Marty Palumbos: You need a good team of people to get it done.

 

190

00:30:13.350 --> 00:30:23.040

Marty Palumbos: You know Michaels role for sure, but then you need an attorney who can help you put together the documents to accomplish what it is you're looking for.

 

191

00:30:23.580 --> 00:30:33.690

Marty Palumbos: As well and thank God we haven't gotten to the point where we need an accountant to sort of sorted out. But that'll be a person at some point in the future will need in the picture as well.

 

192

00:30:35.490 --> 00:30:41.550

Courtney Pullen: Yeah, thank you for providing that too. That's really the team is also made this all work for you all. Yeah.

 

193

00:30:42.690 --> 00:30:52.860

Courtney Pullen: Michael your mom said something interesting. Maybe both you and I smile, which was, she said, and Michael pushing, pushing, pushing,

 

194

00:30:53.340 --> 00:31:07.140

Courtney Pullen: Is that's often the role of there's a usually a son and daughter, the family that's pushing things along. How have you done that been that advocate that's been appropriately pushing

 

195

00:31:07.800 --> 00:31:10.350

Michael Palumbos: Sure. Um, well.

 

196

00:31:11.370 --> 00:31:17.850

Michael Palumbos: We learn that, you know, through the organization that dad and I were affiliated with.

 

197

00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:30.510

Michael Palumbos: There was a creed and I'll simplify it, but it said, you know, serve first, last, and always and that was why dad entered this business.

 

198

00:31:31.290 --> 00:31:44.880

Michael Palumbos: 41 years ago because he was working for the Diocese of Rochester and married mom and now all of a sudden he's got you know him mom and two boys and working on a diocese salary wasn't going to make it happen.

 

199

00:31:46.050 --> 00:32:02.070

Michael Palumbos: But he was working for the diocese because he was a servant and, you know, so when the creed was served first, last, and always that was you know in there. The longer version of that state something to the nature of basically

 

200

00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:18.120

Michael Palumbos: You're not gonna like me sometimes. I'm going to say things that that are going to upset you. And I'm going to be the one the the thorn in your side. That makes sure that your family is taken care of.

 

201

00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:31.890

Michael Palumbos: At the time that it's needed the most. And again, I'm paraphrasing. It was like a four, paragraph creed that was put together 50 years ago or longer, and we still like

 

202

00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:34.110

Marty Palumbos: 1948 Michael

 

203

00:32:34.530 --> 00:32:36.960

Michael Palumbos: There you go. Stuart Smith.

 

204

00:32:38.310 --> 00:32:43.230

Michael Palumbos: And so we still talk about it today. And because of our family being one of giving

 

205

00:32:43.650 --> 00:32:51.000

Michael Palumbos: That has prevailed today so I you know we created an implementation schedule after we put the plan together.

 

206

00:32:51.300 --> 00:33:00.000

Michael Palumbos: And I wasn't the one that was pushing was the implementation schedule. I would just bring it back to the both of them and say hey guys, these are still open items. We need to get these done

 

207

00:33:01.320 --> 00:33:04.650

Michael Palumbos: So gently carefully caring Lee.

 

208

00:33:05.850 --> 00:33:11.280

Michael Palumbos: Just move that move them forward so that it could get done. Great. Thank you.

 

209

00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:25.230

Courtney Pullen: Now, want to go to the question that you three have been waiting for, which is on what needs to be fine tuned reconsidered adjusted whatever language you want to put around that.

 

210

00:33:25.650 --> 00:33:34.170

Courtney Pullen: And the first thing that I have already down my list is that you need to have a number of one on one conversations with each of your kids.

 

211

00:33:35.550 --> 00:33:39.420

Courtney Pullen: So that's really clear. What else is the next step.

 

212

00:33:42.930 --> 00:33:57.690

Marty Palumbos: I think looking at the irrevocable Life Insurance Trust and seeing, is there a way to preserve what it can do without the complexity of trust ownership, because

 

213

00:33:58.740 --> 00:34:08.910

Marty Palumbos: You know, there's a lot of hoops, you got to go through for that to actually work and having been in the business for a long time. I know what the hoops are and I know how to get through them.

 

214

00:34:09.780 --> 00:34:13.470

Marty Palumbos: Michael knows what the groups are and how to go through them, but it's still a pain in the neck.

 

215

00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:24.300

Marty Palumbos: To go through hoops to make it work. And it cheaply, to be able to make the the the resource that appears in that trust available to the family with no tax exposure.

 

216

00:34:24.810 --> 00:34:34.890

Marty Palumbos: We need life insurance is income tax free from the get go. It's the estate tax. We need to avoid and the estate tax is pretty much a non issue.

 

217

00:34:35.160 --> 00:34:48.540

Marty Palumbos: For people with the state's our size. So I'm that that would be a hit list for me is do. Is there a way for us to examine eliminating the irrevocable trust yet preserving

 

218

00:34:49.980 --> 00:34:56.550

Marty Palumbos: The benefit that gives us of having a pool of capital that can be used for a specific purpose.

 

219

00:34:58.650 --> 00:35:01.080

Marty Palumbos: Well, I mean, if all four kids, agreed.

 

220

00:35:02.190 --> 00:35:12.060

Marty Palumbos: To what the purpose of the fund would be we would need to trust to do it. So there's a possibility. But we need a lot of conversation for went down that route.

 

221

00:35:16.620 --> 00:35:23.130

Courtney Pullen: Worrying. What would you add to that list of things to be reconsidered or adjusted

 

222

00:35:31.290 --> 00:35:32.100

Marty Palumbos: I have

 

223

00:35:33.180 --> 00:35:38.640

Marty Palumbos: Relatives that are not in good financial shape.

 

224

00:35:39.720 --> 00:35:45.720

Marty Palumbos: And I help them out. Not a lot, but some and

 

225

00:35:47.580 --> 00:35:56.910

Marty Palumbos: I wouldn't want them left dangling without somehow. And so I have a pot of money that

 

226

00:35:59.070 --> 00:36:09.630

Marty Palumbos: Could be used for that purpose. Again, it wouldn't be a lot of money, but sometimes they need help and

 

227

00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:14.820

Marty Palumbos: I'm I like to help

 

228

00:36:17.940 --> 00:36:20.850

Courtney Pullen: Your request is that that be considered

 

229

00:36:22.530 --> 00:36:27.930

Courtney Pullen: There is some money available to help, at least in limited way with certain family members.

 

230

00:36:28.890 --> 00:36:36.900

Marty Palumbos: And coordinating the previous version to our documents which were like five or six years older than the ones we did in the

 

231

00:36:38.190 --> 00:36:45.780

Marty Palumbos: Morning did call out to different chunks of money for these two different individuals.

 

232

00:36:47.010 --> 00:36:54.630

Marty Palumbos: And in with Michaels guidance we took that out of the next version. And what I do have in place. I'm in

 

233

00:36:55.590 --> 00:37:05.850

Marty Palumbos: This is our money together but it came from the business and saving a whole lot of money and putting money into retirement accounts and so

 

234

00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:20.580

Marty Palumbos: I have control over the vast majority of the resources. So we have used beneficiary designations on one of my IRA accounts to accomplish that, for the

 

235

00:37:21.420 --> 00:37:36.750

Marty Palumbos: Particular family members. We've got a part of one of my retirement accounts going not in cash to this family member but spinning off in generating an income for that person as long as they live.

 

236

00:37:37.260 --> 00:37:39.600

Courtney Pullen: Excellent. She already had the vehicle for that, then

 

237

00:37:39.990 --> 00:37:41.340

Marty Palumbos: We do. Okay.

 

238

00:37:41.820 --> 00:37:42.270

Excellent.

 

239

00:37:43.710 --> 00:37:50.340

Courtney Pullen: Marine, is there anything else that you can think that you want to be considered here.

 

240

00:37:52.620 --> 00:37:53.580

Marty Palumbos: I'm

 

241

00:37:54.870 --> 00:37:57.570

Marty Palumbos: Probably going through the document would

 

242

00:38:00.030 --> 00:38:01.110

Marty Palumbos: Help me to

 

243

00:38:02.610 --> 00:38:03.630

Marty Palumbos: Remind me of

 

244

00:38:04.770 --> 00:38:13.530

Marty Palumbos: Everything we've done which I have. We haven't done recently. So a review of the document would help.

 

245

00:38:15.090 --> 00:38:26.100

Marty Palumbos: Know wills are 23 pages long, their trust is 49 pages long. I've been reading legal documents for 45 years and it put me to sleep so

 

246

00:38:28.560 --> 00:38:28.950

Courtney Pullen: Stop.

 

247

00:38:30.900 --> 00:38:35.190

Courtney Pullen: Yeah, well, yeah, those documents can be pretty dense, good day. Yeah.

 

248

00:38:35.490 --> 00:38:48.270

Marty Palumbos: very dense, but the, you know, one of the back to one of the keys to success in the business is if even people who have paid great attention to the real estate plan. They've got

 

249

00:38:48.660 --> 00:39:01.770

Marty Palumbos: 38 page 59 page documents that they don't either, so it will be able to pull out the nuggets and say this is what it says. This is what you want. Yeah, that's what I wanted. Okay, or no, that's not what I wanted. And what's fix it.

 

250

00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:15.450

Michael Palumbos: That's, that's a really great if I can jump in real quick. That's a great dad. You and I have a colleague that serve somebody that's in the top 100 wealthiest people in the country.

 

251

00:39:16.050 --> 00:39:26.790

Michael Palumbos: And what happened here. Courtney was, you know, so there's a billionaire that has all of his own documents all of his own attorneys. I mean, he has everything taken care of.

 

252

00:39:27.270 --> 00:39:37.710

Michael Palumbos: And you know i one of our colleagues got a meeting with them. It was a 30 minute meeting. He said, You will never find anything in any of my documents. He goes, give me a shot.

 

253

00:39:38.100 --> 00:39:51.030

Michael Palumbos: And sign a nondisclosure agreement took those agreements and one of the insurance you know trusts had a huge hole in it and and and that's, you know, one of the things that

 

254

00:39:51.420 --> 00:40:03.150

Michael Palumbos: That you know I'm so blessed that dad found the company that trained us and you. Matter of fact, you know, Tim belper who came who worked through the same channel that we did.

 

255

00:40:04.650 --> 00:40:10.410

Michael Palumbos: And you know, that's what's different is most financial advisors.

 

256

00:40:11.970 --> 00:40:16.470

Michael Palumbos: are really good at the retirement planning a really good at the investment advisor, but when it comes to

 

257

00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:26.640

Michael Palumbos: You know, reading the documents is for the Insurance Trust or the or the trust or reading the buy, sell agreement and the operating agreement of the company that's not where they spend their time.

 

258

00:40:26.970 --> 00:40:36.990

Michael Palumbos: And people, you know, rely on the attorney to do all of that stuff. And what we have found through the years is that, you know,

 

259

00:40:38.430 --> 00:40:45.270

Michael Palumbos: Most attorneys even really really good ones have a certain set of documents that they use.

 

260

00:40:45.570 --> 00:40:57.210

Michael Palumbos: The templates and so they, you know, the looking at the values and looking at all of the nuances of what happens first is difficult. And so that's one of the reasons why we

 

261

00:40:57.570 --> 00:41:09.240

Michael Palumbos: Are cross trained in so many different areas and why, when purposeful planning and you know in Jason J. Who said Michael, you need to meet Johnny and you really need to start learning family dynamics. I did.

 

262

00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:24.180

Michael Palumbos: Not, you know, and, and then the other thing is, so one is the documents to something that mom said earlier that I just want to, you know, that I want you to that I think is great. You said you know I don't like these things set in stone.

 

263

00:41:25.170 --> 00:41:33.000

Michael Palumbos: And then on the flip of that, as you said, it's probably be a good idea if I review these documents and what we would throw out is that

 

264

00:41:33.390 --> 00:41:45.990

Michael Palumbos: One you you don't know that you, you know, you may forget this, but they're not all set in stone and and we did that on purpose to give you enough ability to make changes as we were going through things

 

265

00:41:47.370 --> 00:41:52.410

Michael Palumbos: Even if after both of you pass that you know they're they're set up with some, you know,

 

266

00:41:53.430 --> 00:42:00.690

Michael Palumbos: Ways to work through them and to. It's not just a review of the documents.

 

267

00:42:01.140 --> 00:42:12.240

Michael Palumbos: It really makes a difference to flow chart the estate because as dad was saying there's beneficiaries on a lot of things like insurance and IRAs and annuities.

 

268

00:42:12.510 --> 00:42:30.960

Michael Palumbos: And unless you flow chart it. You may be surprised to find out that the document doesn't match up to what's actually happening. And so there's just that extra that extra layer to it. So I we will do that. Mom, I'm promise will flow chart that again for you case is going to be really excited.

 

269

00:42:32.550 --> 00:42:37.500

Marty Palumbos: Courtney, put it on that. You're right. Gotta be done list. So you got something else bugging him to do it.

 

270

00:42:37.560 --> 00:42:39.870

Courtney Pullen: And it is on the list.

 

271

00:42:40.110 --> 00:42:44.760

Courtney Pullen: Good, good job. Okay, now I'm curious about

 

272

00:42:46.350 --> 00:42:52.980

Courtney Pullen: The vacation experience that you're talking about every year is that

 

273

00:42:53.640 --> 00:43:04.800

Courtney Pullen: When you get the feedback this year that are certain percentage of a family members for at least saying as at that moment time they weren't sure they were interested in maintaining that tradition.

 

274

00:43:05.310 --> 00:43:09.960

Courtney Pullen: What, where does that leave the three of you and you're thinking about because

 

275

00:43:10.560 --> 00:43:27.810

Courtney Pullen: The original purpose of that was to create an experience. You mentioned and to be a blue of the family. And that's back to that value Marina of time quality time spent together. So what is your thinking about that now.

 

276

00:43:28.380 --> 00:43:30.300

Marty Palumbos: We're pretty open minded.

 

277

00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:36.390

Marty Palumbos: You can't force people to do what you you would like them to do.

 

278

00:43:37.500 --> 00:43:39.390

Marty Palumbos: Including your, your kids.

 

279

00:43:40.620 --> 00:43:43.440

Marty Palumbos: But I would bet the

 

280

00:43:44.490 --> 00:43:50.580

Marty Palumbos: The kids of our kids would like the experience so

 

281

00:43:52.500 --> 00:43:58.620

Marty Palumbos: You know, maybe some of the adults wouldn't want to do it, but I don't know if

 

282

00:43:59.640 --> 00:44:08.820

Marty Palumbos: It just needs to be talked about. And we're open to to change and they all know

 

283

00:44:09.870 --> 00:44:13.830

Marty Palumbos: What we value and you give your kids.

 

284

00:44:15.210 --> 00:44:23.190

Marty Palumbos: Everything you can while you have them and then you know they they live their lives so

 

285

00:44:25.380 --> 00:44:29.250

Marty Palumbos: We had a friend who has a cottage and they were gonna

 

286

00:44:30.780 --> 00:44:31.440

Marty Palumbos: Sell it

 

287

00:44:32.730 --> 00:44:54.180

Marty Palumbos: When they die and their children said no no you can't do that. And so they had a meeting with their kids and three of the four love the cottage. The fourth one. Once no part of it likes to visit once in a while, but doesn't want to own it, so

 

288

00:44:55.530 --> 00:45:09.180

Marty Palumbos: They worked out a plan that that child will get a lump sum and the others will get the cottage. So you can always work around things and

 

289

00:45:11.100 --> 00:45:14.550

Marty Palumbos: You know, we'll, we'll just do something like that, you know,

 

290

00:45:15.180 --> 00:45:24.390

Courtney Pullen: What I love what your disposition is Marina, you're saying we're just open to having the conversation with our kids. We don't have to dictate something we just see

 

291

00:45:24.390 --> 00:45:28.410

Courtney Pullen: Like have an organic process. Yeah.

 

292

00:45:30.330 --> 00:45:32.610

Courtney Pullen: Marty, or Michael, what would you add to that.

 

293

00:45:36.630 --> 00:45:47.130

Marty Palumbos: That earlier I talked about the fact that, you know, there are provisions in the trust that are the will rather than are there for good positive protection.

 

294

00:45:47.940 --> 00:46:03.510

Marty Palumbos: But they're complex and you got to have it explained to you. Several times why it makes sense for you to receive your inheritance in a trust instead of just algorithm and

 

295

00:46:04.500 --> 00:46:14.700

Marty Palumbos: Especially when they read the part that says, and you are the trustee of your trust and you are free to take the money out of the trust so

 

296

00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:31.200

Marty Palumbos: Why put it in the trust this hour with. I'm just going to take it out. Okay, let's have a conversation about why you might want to leave it in the trust. Here's why people create trust and leads things you can trust for their kids.

 

297

00:46:35.970 --> 00:46:41.640

Marty Palumbos: So having multiple conversations about this with them is probably going to be pretty important.

 

298

00:46:42.090 --> 00:46:53.010

Courtney Pullen: You know I it's refreshing to me worried that you've emphasized that a couple times in multiple conversations because this is complicated. Technically,

 

299

00:46:53.490 --> 00:46:55.920

Courtney Pullen: It's also complicated emotionally for you.

 

300

00:46:56.880 --> 00:47:06.330

Courtney Pullen: So you're both of you have this willingness to keep going back and refreshing the conversation and having as you sit and read an open conversation about

 

301

00:47:06.630 --> 00:47:21.300

Courtney Pullen: The trust and how they work in your, you know, your wishes and what's important to you. So I applaud you for that, um, Michael, I am curious about your thoughts about what it's a two part question.

 

302

00:47:23.130 --> 00:47:33.900

Courtney Pullen: For you kind of surprised when you're all gathered and you heard some of your family saying I'm not so sure. We want to continue this tradition and what are your thoughts about what can be done about that.

 

303

00:47:34.500 --> 00:47:34.980

There.

 

304

00:47:37.140 --> 00:47:46.500

Michael Palumbos: I wasn't surprised and that's and that's why we started the family meeting and started talking about these things. Why I was pushing for it is, you know,

 

305

00:47:47.220 --> 00:48:02.430

Michael Palumbos: 10 years of working with the purposeful planning Institute and listening and learning. You know, I didn't do I didn't get my my bachelor's in psychology, but I bet you, it's pretty close to an equivalent with all the time and the learning that we've spent there.

 

306

00:48:04.230 --> 00:48:10.770

Michael Palumbos: And you could just tell that one of the things in my opinion that we missed is

 

307

00:48:12.060 --> 00:48:21.090

Michael Palumbos: As we're bringing in spouses, they're coming from other families and they're coming from other values.

 

308

00:48:21.570 --> 00:48:40.380

Michael Palumbos: And and then, you know, I went through a divorce and there was almost two other divorces in the family that didn't happen. And so there you know there was some, you know, there, there was this is just this is just family, you know, this is just normal family stuff and

 

309

00:48:41.550 --> 00:48:46.440

Michael Palumbos: Yeah, you just knew that, you know, as, as Jay says

 

310

00:48:47.640 --> 00:49:07.320

Michael Palumbos: Families have affinity when and my parents have always always believed in affinity over blood and but at the same time it's doing the exercises in finding a way to bring a voice to the outside family members.

 

311

00:49:08.610 --> 00:49:18.660

Michael Palumbos: And you know the the married in spouses to ensure that we were doing that because we get it wasn't, it wasn't, it was Columbus family vacation.

 

312

00:49:19.350 --> 00:49:24.540

Michael Palumbos: Not, you know, each name of each you know the the family game of each spouse and

 

313

00:49:24.750 --> 00:49:36.210

Michael Palumbos: It was always the Columbus traditions. What about some of the other traditions and and and I believe that we do a really, really good job of that. My wife is Jewish. We're a Catholic family.

 

314

00:49:36.750 --> 00:49:58.110

Michael Palumbos: And we celebrate Shabbat dinner, you know, during POV. You know, on Fridays. And so we were very inclusive, but there's emotions and thoughts and feelings that we might not always gather and so this was an opening for us to just to say, in my opinion.

 

315

00:49:59.220 --> 00:50:07.920

Michael Palumbos: While mom and dad are here while there's a chance to open up this dialogue at a better at a bigger level.

 

316

00:50:08.430 --> 00:50:16.860

Michael Palumbos: And that's the fact that they're saying, you know, we need to have some one on ones. It's figuring out what are those conversations. How do you have those conversations

 

317

00:50:17.190 --> 00:50:30.450

Michael Palumbos: So that everybody feels included everybody feels part of the decision and that we can either decide not to do it together or decide to do it together and and how do we do that.

 

318

00:50:31.890 --> 00:50:47.790

Courtney Pullen: I wonder morning Marie what Michael said is profound. And as someone who deals with the family dynamic side of the equation, a lot and I know a lot of people on this call are in that field as well.

 

319

00:50:48.600 --> 00:51:08.820

Courtney Pullen: How, how is it that you pull that off because that how to evolve the in laws can be very divisive and people going through divorces and all that. Well, that's that can be very divisive. So how have you all created that space to be so successful that

 

320

00:51:10.770 --> 00:51:14.370

Marty Palumbos: We try to stay out of our children's business.

 

321

00:51:15.600 --> 00:51:16.110

Marty Palumbos: And

 

322

00:51:19.830 --> 00:51:21.300

Marty Palumbos: What why we love them in

 

323

00:51:22.650 --> 00:51:28.620

Marty Palumbos: In what the best for them. They do their own thing and

 

324

00:51:31.950 --> 00:51:43.530

Marty Palumbos: And remember, what am I trying to say, well, that those are excellent points which is right on terms of our strategy I would go back. How did we make it work successfully coordinate

 

325

00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:55.950

Marty Palumbos: When Michael and David were little kids. And along came Elizabeth was four years younger than David and then Andrea was four years younger than her.

 

326

00:51:56.400 --> 00:52:09.840

Marty Palumbos: On every Sunday we go to church on Sunday and directly from church. We went to her parents house where her mother was bedridden with multiple sclerosis and

 

327

00:52:11.250 --> 00:52:16.110

Marty Palumbos: The kids just knew that was part of what we did on Sundays.

 

328

00:52:18.660 --> 00:52:24.990

Marty Palumbos: So family values were planted deep in those kids early on.

 

329

00:52:26.220 --> 00:52:27.510

Marty Palumbos: Yeah, and

 

330

00:52:29.310 --> 00:52:31.890

Marty Palumbos: We've continued on with that through

 

331

00:52:33.090 --> 00:52:55.200

Marty Palumbos: Her Mom and her Dad and my, on my father than my mother then moorings first husband's grandparents we cared for them and then His Mother we cared for her. Then, a friend of the family, no blood relation lived with us so that he died.

 

332

00:52:59.940 --> 00:53:02.160

Marty Palumbos: So our kids have seen us

 

333

00:53:03.390 --> 00:53:07.230

Marty Palumbos: Involved in giving to other people.

 

334

00:53:08.460 --> 00:53:25.200

Courtney Pullen: Marty, thanks for sharing that. And that's, that's your words are really powerful for all those is that a lot of people talk about their values and they're kind of on the shelf, you are living your values and modeling that which was an incredible gift for your gram

 

335

00:53:27.150 --> 00:53:38.670

Marty Palumbos: I think the kids feel that, and they see that and it contributes a lot to the way they feel about family their own families and the bigger family. I'm not sure we answer your question.

 

336

00:53:40.020 --> 00:53:40.890

Courtney Pullen: I think

 

337

00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:46.620

Courtney Pullen: You did beautifully Marie, I was, I couldn't imagine a better answer.

 

338

00:53:47.670 --> 00:54:05.160

Courtney Pullen: About what you've done to make it work. Michael, I'd like to turn it to you over to you with one final question, and then you can wrap up, however you like to wrap up. Is that covered two part question here. Is there anything that you would add to what your mom and dad said,

 

339

00:54:06.210 --> 00:54:12.450

Courtney Pullen: Just about the family of affinity, because that's something very important, obviously.

 

340

00:54:12.990 --> 00:54:29.700

Courtney Pullen: Or any last minute thoughts that you have about anything you learned or were struck by on this conversation. And we had this morning or at to do, sir. On your mind just whatever you'd like to do. Michael to kind of wrap a bow on this.

 

341

00:54:30.210 --> 00:54:44.400

Michael Palumbos: Sure. Um, well, there was one other piece that you know we didn't talk about that, you know, speaks volumes when when mom married, Marty.

 

342

00:54:46.140 --> 00:54:55.140

Michael Palumbos: Marty turned around and you know David and I had lost her father, and he asked if he could adopt us. And so, I mean, from

 

343

00:54:59.070 --> 00:55:06.240

Michael Palumbos: Day one of working with Marty and Maureen. We knew what a family of affinity

 

344

00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:15.780

Michael Palumbos: And so when I read that in jays book it resonated you know family wealth, keeping it in the family.

 

345

00:55:16.680 --> 00:55:25.920

Michael Palumbos: And you know that works for our family. What hasn't worked is the, you know, is the now we have to step up and teach

 

346

00:55:26.730 --> 00:55:33.750

Michael Palumbos: We've shown it and you know the four siblings grew up in the same house for many, many years to we share all of that.

 

347

00:55:34.140 --> 00:55:42.390

Michael Palumbos: And it's no different than the family business, you know, at the cousin generation. When you grow up in different families. And that's the part

 

348

00:55:42.690 --> 00:55:55.560

Michael Palumbos: Of spending the time to help the the spouses that have married in really understand how important family of affinity is to us. And what does that mean

 

349

00:55:56.490 --> 00:56:14.400

Michael Palumbos: And they seen it through the years, you know when when Charlotte live with mom and dad. They were her hospice. She was not a blood relative but we called her and Charlotte after 15 years of being together. And she came to, should we just adopted her into our family, you know, she was a

 

350

00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:27.120

Michael Palumbos: A parish, you know, administrator ran you know some of the parishes in the area and our uncle, who is a priest knew her and said, Hey, would you mind if she came to, you know,

 

351

00:56:28.200 --> 00:56:33.780

Michael Palumbos: Christmas or Easter or whatever. And we, of course, and then eventually, you know, she just became part of the family came to

 

352

00:56:34.290 --> 00:56:36.240

Michael Palumbos: The PSP everything else.

 

353

00:56:37.500 --> 00:56:46.530

Michael Palumbos: So, you know, our spouses saw that. But it's different. Seeing it without more of the stories.

 

354

00:56:47.550 --> 00:56:59.760

Michael Palumbos: And I think, I think we, you know, if we could share more of these stories about what are Columbus family values, it would really make a giant difference and like there's there's

 

355

00:57:00.150 --> 00:57:10.230

Michael Palumbos: There, we did a family meeting for one of my clients three weekends for weekends ago and the married ends did a

 

356

00:57:11.130 --> 00:57:24.270

Michael Palumbos: They went they left the area and came back in cowboy boots vests gene GE cut off jean shorts, if they, you know, for the, the girls and Levi's and black hats.

 

357

00:57:24.660 --> 00:57:30.720

Michael Palumbos: And they said, we just, you know, if you haven't known this we call ourselves the outlaws

 

358

00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:46.140

Michael Palumbos: Because we're not part of the family, but we are and and what does that mean to be an outlaw and, you know, and how do we deal with this family this family and the family business. And how do you learn to do all this stuff well

 

359

00:57:46.650 --> 00:57:54.180

Michael Palumbos: We just want to extend a couple of hats out and they reached out to the new married ends over the last couple of years.

 

360

00:57:54.510 --> 00:58:06.690

Michael Palumbos: And it was just beautiful. And you could just see you know they extended the cowboy hats and there was one of the girls there that was they just got engaged and they looked at her and said, you'll get your cowboy hat next year.

 

361

00:58:07.980 --> 00:58:19.830

Michael Palumbos: So that indoctrination of teaching people what the family is all about is work. It's a lot of work, but it's worthy work. And I think that that's

 

362

00:58:20.520 --> 00:58:29.580

Michael Palumbos: Some of the stuff that we could do to to bring the same kind of feelings that we just had the three of us experienced because of your facilitation, Courtney. Thank you.

 

363

00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:37.230

Michael Palumbos: That we can extend that other families, whenever possible, and we need to be doing it inside of ours and

 

364

00:58:40.050 --> 00:58:45.180

Michael Palumbos: This, this was this was very helpful. I've got my to do list.

 

365

00:58:46.560 --> 00:58:59.070

Michael Palumbos: And you know, I hope that this was helpful for anybody else that you know those that are on the phone dn. I saw you unmuted yourself. Questions or comments.

 

366

00:59:01.170 --> 00:59:05.430

Daniel Van Der Vliet: No. Actually, it was very insightful and Courtney, we know each other through CFS.

 

367

00:59:06.330 --> 00:59:07.830

Daniel Van Der Vliet: Oh, yes.

 

368

00:59:09.300 --> 00:59:12.720

Daniel Van Der Vliet: We were in my we're in Miami to go, you are a new member

 

369

00:59:13.890 --> 00:59:15.420

Daniel Van Der Vliet: That's correct, yes.

 

370

00:59:16.020 --> 00:59:17.070

Daniel Van Der Vliet: Thank you for Claire now I

 

371

00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:30.420

Daniel Van Der Vliet: Know I it was very insightful. I mean, I think there is an interesting case of ironies that this is a family business that specializes in family wealth and legacy and yet.

 

372

00:59:31.050 --> 00:59:41.310

Daniel Van Der Vliet: Internal to your own family this still takes a lot of work. So, Courtney just watching your line of questioning and how you you know really just kept

 

373

00:59:42.030 --> 00:59:50.430

Daniel Van Der Vliet: Sort of keeping it very personal and really sort of, you know, repeating what you heard, making sure that you're clarifying things

 

374

00:59:50.850 --> 00:59:57.720

Daniel Van Der Vliet: And really just continuing to build on the conversation and build on your own understanding of the case was was very insightful.

 

375

00:59:58.710 --> 01:00:02.610

Daniel Van Der Vliet: And, you know, just the, the fact that, you know, there were

 

376

01:00:03.030 --> 01:00:14.100

Daniel Van Der Vliet: A few emotional moments in there. And I think we've all experienced them, whether it's, you know, our own selves talking about our family and values or, you know, being part of a conversation like this.

 

377

01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:21.390

Daniel Van Der Vliet: It's hard not to be pulled in by the the gravity of that of those feelings. So thank you all for for sharing.

 

378

01:00:22.740 --> 01:00:23.430

Thanks, Dan.

 

379

01:00:25.020 --> 01:00:28.350

Michael Palumbos: Courtney, I just got a huge hats off.

 

380

01:00:28.380 --> 01:00:30.240

Michael Palumbos: This was fabulous.

 

381

01:00:30.270 --> 01:00:33.660

Michael Palumbos: Marty Maury mom and dad thoughts. What did you, how did

 

382

01:00:33.660 --> 01:00:34.920

Daniel Van Der Vliet: How did that feel for you.

 

383

01:00:36.900 --> 01:00:38.160

Marty Palumbos: Nervous entering

 

384

01:00:39.510 --> 01:00:50.430

Marty Palumbos: Very much like your disk exercise happy leading not because it's over, but because it was a good working discussion about what do we need to do next.

 

385

01:00:51.600 --> 01:00:55.320

Marty Palumbos: Great. We never stopped learning so

 

386

01:00:55.860 --> 01:00:58.050

Daniel Van Der Vliet: It was a good learning experience.

 

387

01:00:59.700 --> 01:01:03.690

Michael Palumbos: Awesome Courtney if people wanted to reach out to you. How do they find you.

 

388

01:01:04.530 --> 01:01:06.330

Courtney Pullen: That's a good question. Just

 

389

01:01:07.110 --> 01:01:09.750

Courtney Pullen: Courtney a full and consulting com or just

 

390

01:01:09.750 --> 01:01:12.420

Courtney Pullen: Google my name. Okay. Yeah.

 

391

01:01:12.510 --> 01:01:14.310

Michael Palumbos: You ll e n

 

392

01:01:15.750 --> 01:01:27.390

Michael Palumbos: Know it well thank you to all of you for joining us today on the family biz show the podcast is now live episode zero

 

393

01:01:28.560 --> 01:01:43.290

Michael Palumbos: Episode one will be going up this Thursday and as of this recording, I'm not quite sure. I think this is the 15th, one that we recorded. So we're pretty excited. So we'll get the the live version out shortly.

 

394

01:01:44.730 --> 01:01:55.620

Michael Palumbos: And we have a lot you know we have a lot of things to share with people. If anybody wants to reach out to family wealth and legacy, check out our website. We're happy to help people.

 

395

01:01:56.430 --> 01:02:03.180

Michael Palumbos: It doesn't necessarily mean that, you know, a phone call means that you're becoming a client. We're just happy to help. Whenever we can

 

396

01:02:04.440 --> 01:02:04.890

Daniel Van Der Vliet: So,

 

397

01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:10.620

Michael Palumbos: Thank you all for joining us and we'll see you in the future on the family biz show

 

398

01:02:11.670 --> 01:02:12.270

Marty Palumbos: Thank you.

 

399

01:02:12.900 --> 01:02:14.100

Courtney Pullen: Mom remarried, so good.

 

400

01:02:14.430 --> 01:02:15.450

Daniel Van Der Vliet: Guys, hey,

 

401

01:02:16.230 --> 01:02:16.830

Michael

 

402

01:02:20.280 --> 01:02:20.670

Nice.

If you’re a family business or a family business consultant and want to be on the show, share your story and help other family businesses, send us an email to producer@thefamilybizshow.com or fill out a contact form here!

*not affiliated with Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp.

Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances.

CRN-3346680-112520