Broker Check

Episode 20: Utilizing Purposeful Trusts In The Family Business

In this episode of the Family Business Show, host Michael Palumbos engages with esteemed guests Ray Odom and John Warnick, both ACTEC fellows, to delve into the nuanced realm of family businesses, trusts, and the essence of purposeful planning. The discussion illuminates the often-overlooked significance of aligning a family's wealth and business endeavors with a deeper sense of purpose and intentionality.

Ray Odom shares his journey and insights into the world of trusts and estate planning, emphasizing the importance of understanding the 'why' behind wealth and business decisions. His anecdote about a medical records company highlights how a clear, purpose-driven mission can profoundly influence all aspects of a business, fostering a sense of commitment and direction that transcends mere financial success.

John Warnick, on the other hand, explores the concept of purposeful naming in trusts and family enterprises. He illustrates how a thoughtfully chosen name, imbued with meaning and reflective of the family's values and aspirations, can serve as a powerful beacon, guiding future generations in stewardship and decision-making. Through examples like the Red Corvette Opportunity Trust, Warnick demonstrates how a name, coupled with a narrative, can encapsulate and communicate a family's legacy, values, and goals, thereby ensuring that the wealth serves a purpose beyond itself.

The conversation also touches upon the delicate balance required to align the interests and well-being of the family with the business's demands. Both guests stress the importance of collaborative teamwork among advisors and honoring existing relationships within the family's advisory circle, ensuring that expertise and familiarity work hand in hand to support the family's objectives.

In essence, this episode sheds light on the transformative power of purposeful planning in the realm of family business and wealth management. It underscores the idea that wealth and businesses are not just financial assets but tools that, when wielded with intention and foresight, can cultivate a lasting, positive impact on the family and the broader community.

Episode 20 Transcript


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Michael Palumbos: Well welcome everybody to the family business show. I'm your host, Michael.



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John Warnick: Columbus.



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Michael Palumbos: With family wealth and legacy



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John Warnick: here in Rochester, New York.



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Michael Palumbos: Today I am it really excited to bring



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Michael Palumbos: Another set of incredible guests.



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Michael Palumbos: You know typically most people are really reluctant to set up a meeting with an attorney yet alone a meeting with two attorneys and to think that they're going to have a great time. I'm here to tell you that



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Michael Palumbos: This is going to be a great time.



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Michael Palumbos: For those of you who have been following me for a while.



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Michael Palumbos: You know,



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Michael Palumbos: You know that



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Michael Palumbos: I'm a giant fan that when you're working on your state that you're working with an act tech fellow, and I am blessed to have to



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Michael Palumbos: Act tech fellows here with me today. So



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Michael Palumbos: Ray autumn and Johnny Warnecke welcome to both of you.



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John Warnick: Thank you, Michael. Right. It's a pleasure to be here. Michael



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Michael Palumbos: So we have a tradition on the show.



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Michael Palumbos: Where rather than me reading



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Michael Palumbos: The laundry list.



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Michael Palumbos: Of wonderful accolades in your bio people can go to the website to read those.



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Michael Palumbos: Things. What I have what I have found to be in kind of a little bit more fun, a little bit more exciting is to kind of take us through your journey. Take us through, you know, what were the steps. How did you



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John Warnick: End up working with families.



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Michael Palumbos: You know family businesses and families of wealth.



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Michael Palumbos: So that people get a kind of a background of, you know, where did you come from.



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Michael Palumbos: And



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John Warnick: How did you get here today so



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Michael Palumbos: Ray, would you mind. Kicking us off and



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Michael Palumbos: Tell us about your journey.



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Raymond Odom: All right, very good. I was



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Raymond Odom: Looking forward to hearing John's first so I could try to copy him.



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Michael Palumbos: Fair enough.



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Raymond Odom: Yes, my journey started, you know, coming out of law school, I was a



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Raymond Odom: Thought was gonna be a tax guy. And again,



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Raymond Odom: US tax Council of northern and really enjoyed a lot of the nuances of, you know, the tax code and really didn't have a connection with clients, per se, except that I would be called in when it was you know problematic one of my early situations, was I was called in when there was a week.



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Raymond Odom: shipping magnate who



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Raymond Odom: Had we had file a tax return for and it looked like we had ever done everything perfect but you know when you're dealing with shipping the rules are amazingly



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Raymond Odom: Complex.



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Raymond Odom: And I remember using the tax law to save the day for our client and for our company I feel pretty good about that.



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Raymond Odom: Fast board and I



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Raymond Odom: Went into private practice and the pilot petitions with a firm.



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Raymond Odom: That represented



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Raymond Odom: Dutch clients and that should mean anything to you, except for there was this unusual propensity for Dutch clients to be in the



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Raymond Odom: Garbage business believer now. And because of that, during the time when all of these local companies were selling to browning Ferris and waste management.



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Raymond Odom: And those mom and pop companies that had been represented by our firm for a long time, all the sudden we're getting 100,000 100 million dollars in cash in their 80s, back when that was really 100 million almost



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Raymond Odom: And so that was another experience and the, the whole idea of the complexity of families and their ownership and then from there.



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Raymond Odom: Like came about in Northern Trust back more than just in a role of a trust administrator and as a relationship manager and my story. That brings me to this point is a story of a wealthy woman who had about maybe 200 million or so dollars but all she cared about was her home.



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John Warnick: Her ranch and



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Raymond Odom: Which was a family business. And we kept saying, well, there's other things, other family business.



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John Warnick: We should care about and



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Raymond Odom: All the things that we tried to do for her. She never really caught on or cared about. And then she died in a year in which there was no estate tax 2010



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Raymond Odom: And that was when I got religion because I realized that I had spent all of my time.



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Raymond Odom: Five years with her.



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Raymond Odom: Trying to create a tax.



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John Warnick: Experience.



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John Warnick: That wasn't relevant



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Raymond Odom: At her death, and that she had from the beginning, one in her business interests her money interest all to be part of a purposeful trust.



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John Warnick: As I



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Raymond Odom: Eric Johnny's thoughts.



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Raymond Odom: Purposeful trust that took care of giving her children and experience that would allow them to be the best they could be. And that really is how I got to being an advocate for the use of trust and purpose statements and statements of intent.



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Raymond Odom: For anyone, anyone who is in business.



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Raymond Odom: Or who has wealth.



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John Warnick: Well,



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Michael Palumbos: I appreciate you sharing. Thank you.



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John Warnick: Johnny



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John Warnick: Tell us. Oh, I'm going to



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John Warnick: Turn over to the side so they can get a little glimpse of three of a kind, and a joker. That's the the steer is the Joker and that oil painting behind me and it



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John Warnick: Don't need the blue Hornet glasses.



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John Warnick: It tells a little bit of my story. I've always my father was raised on a farm. My mother was raised on a farm both dairy farms, although my father also had some sheep.



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John Warnick: In their family. My dad ended up becoming a professor of animal science of reproductive physiology, to be precise. When I was 14



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John Warnick: Our family was involved in, believe it or not a case in the US tax court. My father had spent a little over almost



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John Warnick: A year and a half, outside the US, we as a family had gone with him. He had been working for the United Nations that year and a half, and there was a controversy tax controversy over whether the income earned while outside the US was taxable so



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John Warnick: He and the other professor that were kind of to guinea pigs. In this case, they went up to the tax court together. I was actually interviewed and kind of a deposition type setting.



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John Warnick: By the tax attorney in Washington, DC, who was representing us and the other professor who was Professor Scott. Anyway, these two cases were decided in our favor.



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John Warnick: But that stuck with me. It filled me with this excitement around tax. I thought this tax attorney was almost as cool as radio and he was polished and



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John Warnick: And really just really a gentleman and his name was Angelo. I had a role. And so I i went off charge through college as fast as I could, got into a great law school.



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John Warnick: decided that I was going to be a tax attorney, the law school. I went to fortunately had both a master's level tax program.



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John Warnick: That was an evening and I was working in the day and going to school last going to law school at night. So I took a lot of those Masters level tax courts.



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John Warnick: And when I came out, I was a tax geek and I initially for the first five or so years kind of parallel story with Ray, very much.



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John Warnick: thought everything was in the dotting the i's and crossing the T's on the tax returns, and the structural, you know, the forms that we would use to implement tax strategies.



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John Warnick: It was in the next 1520 years of my practice evolution that I became purposeful and there was a major event that actually two events.



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John Warnick: Within quick succession that occurred to me right around the turn of the century, and in the year 2000 and they forever changed the trajectory. After that those two experiences. I really began to ask



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John Warnick: Isn't there a better way to do this planning. Isn't there a way that we can avoid some of the loss of human potential. The fracturing of families that I was seeing show up all too often.



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John Warnick: In the technical plans that we had so precisely erected, but then they were kind of through these forces that we didn't



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John Warnick: Anticipate or couldn't control were being torn apart. So that's how I was asking that question isn't there a better way, that's what led me to a series of



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John Warnick: Amazing professional experiences I've always often said the clients have been my greatest teachers and everything that I've learned in the last 1520 years really can be traced back to those two professionally jarring experiences I had that caused me to ask that question.



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Michael Palumbos: Awesome. Again, appreciate you sharing. Here's a question. I don't



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Michael Palumbos: I don't know the answer to.



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Michael Palumbos: How long have the two of you.



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known each other.



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John Warnick: We're a let me take a first stab at that. I, I believe that Ray came on behalf of Northern Trust to Denver.



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John Warnick: Probably in the OH 60708 timeframe somewhere. I believe in that period of time is when I, that was the first time.



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John Warnick: I got to hear ray in person got introduced to him.



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John Warnick: And began to follow him.



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John Warnick: The reason I asked.



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Michael Palumbos: Is because I think it's really interesting how you're in different states. You're in different companies.



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Michael Palumbos: You're not affiliated and the path sounds almost identical. That's



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John Warnick: You know my story.



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Michael Palumbos: How I found you, Johnny is very similar, except the families that I was



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Michael Palumbos: Serving



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Michael Palumbos: You know they were a million to $10 million. They weren't



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Michael Palumbos: Huge



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Michael Palumbos: Giant wealth but



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Michael Palumbos: What we saw over and over again was, we would put together these really good technical estate plans with the help of the attorneys and we would, you know,



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Michael Palumbos: Put all the tax pieces together and back in the day.



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Michael Palumbos: Even you know if you had $5 million that was still a tax problem sometimes



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Michael Palumbos: Um, but



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Michael Palumbos: They would



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Michael Palumbos: You know, a client would pass



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John Warnick: And the whole thing that we put together was



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Michael Palumbos: unraveled because nobody wanted the cottage on the lake.



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Michael Palumbos: Nobody wanted



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Michael Palumbos: You know this, that, or the other thing they didn't want to spend time together once mom and dad were gone. And so that's when I said the same thing. There has to be a better way. And that better way



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John Warnick: Is just



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Michael Palumbos: Communication so



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Michael Palumbos: That's what we're here to talk about today. Ray, you and I enter I



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Michael Palumbos: Think you had something you wanted to add about



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John Warnick: John a



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Raymond Odom: Does that know just his recollection of of our



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Raymond Odom: Meeting is accurate.



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John Warnick: Although



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Raymond Odom: He was a bit of my hero before



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Raymond Odom: That I just didn't know it.



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Michael Palumbos: mutual admiration society. I love it.



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John Warnick: So I think we both have gray already knew a lot. I knew a little, maybe a lot in some respects, but we both learned so so much more in the last 10 1214 years, whatever. It's been that since we first met



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Michael Palumbos: So today's show is



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John Warnick: Michael, let me say this. I, it is true, I've been privileged to serve.



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John Warnick: Billionaires center millionaires.



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John Warnick: But I find truthfully, that the number of digits in a balance sheet reflecting a family's financial capital isn't an accurate.



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John Warnick: barometer of how purposeful that plan might be. And those I found that clients. The, the kind of Millionaire Next Door client that nobody might suspect of being a millionaire.



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John Warnick: They sometimes can be as more purposeful, then the billionaire or sent a millionaire, who has so much more financial wealth, but it really comes back to vision and heart.



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John Warnick: That's what it's all about.



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Michael Palumbos: Yes, I would agree.



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Michael Palumbos: So today's show.



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Michael Palumbos: Trusts



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Michael Palumbos: Family Business purposeful or persistent and you know at the when I'm just saying those words trusts and family business purposeful a persistent



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Michael Palumbos: Would have the first one of the first things that come to your mind, Ray. What it, what does that. What does that say to you when we just utilize that title.



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Raymond Odom: You know,



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Raymond Odom: It really sets up the



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Raymond Odom: The conflict that you know you're taught in law school and I think



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Raymond Odom: Even our clients understand that.



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Raymond Odom: A family business. And the business entity that is in is somehow going to last forever. That's what we talked about the



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Raymond Odom: Perpetual



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Raymond Odom: Kind of entity and it's going to persist and sometimes, you know, we kind of assume



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Raymond Odom: That the fact that we



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Raymond Odom: Have a business entity that doesn't die means that we have a purpose and for me.



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Raymond Odom: That's not the case. And so



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Raymond Odom: What your title says is, look, there's



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Raymond Odom: A persistence built



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Raymond Odom: Into the nature of a business entity, but that's completely different from what its purposes and you shouldn't really confuse the two or else you're going to wind up having something that doesn't persist, because it doesn't have a purpose.



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Michael Palumbos: Love it. That's fantastic, fantastic. And you know, when we did a pre show call together. The three of us, and I had a lot of fun going



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John Warnick: Through just



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Michael Palumbos: Thinking through



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Michael Palumbos: You know what we're going to be sharing what we're going to be talking about. And one of the first things that we uncovered and through that conversation was the



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John Warnick: Fact that



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Michael Palumbos: You know,



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John Warnick: The difference between, you know,



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Michael Palumbos: Having a family run business versus a family in business and why that's so



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John Warnick: Important



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Michael Palumbos: To make that distinction and, you know, Johnny, would you mind, you know, just kind of walking



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John Warnick: Through that



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Michael Palumbos: For people. What does that mean when I say that to you.



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John Warnick: Well, I think.



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John Warnick: You know, this is really one of the great challenges that faces the entrepreneur business owner family patriarch or matriarch is how do we



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John Warnick: How do we bring family and business together and become as you said Michael family in business or as I like to say an enterprising family.



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John Warnick: I have feet. I've seen too many situations where sadly family took second or third chair to the business. And so the the founder typically



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John Warnick: give so much energy attention. Time to building the business, creating this financial empire huge success and the family in a sense is really third place or second place, at least in his life or her life and there is



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John Warnick: That, that really is not a positive recipe for a flourishing family so it takes it really takes discipline. It takes focus



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John Warnick: It takes a little bit of that persistence word for someone to rebalance and either put family ahead of business, or at least on



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John Warnick: equal footing with business to make sure that family is never made to feel second place and and i think that what we're going to be talking about



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John Warnick: Today are different ways that Ray and I and you Michael have discovered that we can help families put heart and soul into the structure that are the vehicles for the intergenerational transfer of this wealth, whether it's an operating business or more of a passive



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John Warnick: You know, holding company or family investment company.



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Michael Palumbos: Ray, anything to add to that.



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Raymond Odom: No, said, Amen, that's well said.



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Michael Palumbos: I would throw in just the other piece to that and Johnny, I think we're on the same



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Michael Palumbos: 100% on the same



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Michael Palumbos: Page about, you know, bringing in that heart and



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Michael Palumbos: Soul into the thing to do as Ray said purpose.



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Michael Palumbos: I think, you know,



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Michael Palumbos: Making sure that there's a purpose behind the business. A lot of times when we



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Michael Palumbos: Hear



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Michael Palumbos: When I hear that people are thinking about, am I making decisions for the business from a family perspective.



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Michael Palumbos: Or from a business perspective and



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John Warnick: If we're making them for



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Michael Palumbos: The family perspective. Sometimes that that



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Michael Palumbos: Can turn into



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Michael Palumbos: A mess something, you know, it's



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Michael Palumbos: You get, you get a company vehicle because your last name is Smith.



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Michael Palumbos: You know, you get a raise, because you're going through a



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Michael Palumbos: Divorce right now and child support is



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Michael Palumbos: Going to be more, you know, hire



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Michael Palumbos: So there's that piece.



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Michael Palumbos: Of that



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Michael Palumbos: You know portion



00:18:41.610 --> 00:18:44.130

Michael Palumbos: And then there you know and then as well as the



00:18:44.340 --> 00:18:45.810

Michael Palumbos: You know, is this a lifestyle.



00:18:45.810 --> 00:18:48.780

Michael Palumbos: Business versus an equity business.



00:18:49.140 --> 00:18:52.830

Michael Palumbos: But I think it's that that that piece that you both bring to the



00:18:52.830 --> 00:18:53.580

Michael Palumbos: Table that we're going to



00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:54.540

Michael Palumbos: Be spending the



00:18:54.900 --> 00:18:57.060

Michael Palumbos: Focus on of that.



00:18:57.120 --> 00:18:58.530

John Warnick: Hot bring



00:18:59.070 --> 00:19:10.170

Michael Palumbos: That purpose, the values that that own that's extra that really makes being in a family business to the nth degree so I



00:19:11.610 --> 00:19:13.260

Michael Palumbos: I appreciate that Ray. Go ahead.



00:19:13.710 --> 00:19:26.760

Raymond Odom: And I think, I think you're onto something. I think the key is that when we talk about business. One of the phrases we all use this. Well, you know,



00:19:26.820 --> 00:19:28.260

John Warnick: It's business.



00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:33.030

Raymond Odom: It's it you know this is business and what we know what we're trying to say we're saying



00:19:33.030 --> 00:19:42.870

Raymond Odom: Look, there is an need to make a decision that has an objective reality, apart from the emotions.



00:19:43.080 --> 00:19:44.310

John Warnick: That are connected to



00:19:44.310 --> 00:19:50.220

Raymond Odom: Relationships, and that's a truth, but it really is.



00:19:50.280 --> 00:19:51.810

John Warnick: A subordinate truth.



00:19:52.140 --> 00:19:54.540

Raymond Odom: To the greater truth which is yes.



00:19:54.660 --> 00:20:01.140

Raymond Odom: There is that need to make that decision that has objected base basis.



00:20:01.470 --> 00:20:03.000

John Warnick: But to me it's



00:20:03.060 --> 00:20:04.200

Raymond Odom: Always set in



00:20:04.230 --> 00:20:10.650

Raymond Odom: A greater context as to whether the decision is bringing life.



00:20:11.040 --> 00:20:12.660

John Warnick: And meaning.



00:20:12.750 --> 00:20:24.270

Raymond Odom: And and purposefulness to the family and the individuals involved or whether it's taking away from life. I actually liked that word, whether you know good and bad doesn't work so well.



00:20:24.450 --> 00:20:25.530

Raymond Odom: But is it



00:20:25.560 --> 00:20:28.140

Raymond Odom: Is it something that's allowing thriving.



00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:29.370

John Warnick: And flourishing.



00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:32.850

Raymond Odom: Or is it something that's going to set up chaos.



00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:34.620

John Warnick: And division and



00:20:34.650 --> 00:20:39.840

Raymond Odom: Even though the decision is very objective and as you know



00:20:39.930 --> 00:20:42.480

Raymond Odom: reviewed by experts who have all kinds



00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:42.810

John Warnick: Of



00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:43.650

You know,



00:20:44.940 --> 00:20:51.060

Raymond Odom: You know numbers and things that we can look at, at the end of the day when that



00:20:51.090 --> 00:20:54.300

Raymond Odom: Objective decision over some measure of



00:20:54.300 --> 00:20:56.340

Raymond Odom: Time is causing a



00:20:56.760 --> 00:20:57.930

John Warnick: Deterioration



00:20:58.200 --> 00:20:59.790

Raymond Odom: Of the lives and being



00:21:00.360 --> 00:21:02.010

Raymond Odom: That's not



00:21:02.070 --> 00:21:04.620

Raymond Odom: A good decision whether you call it family or



00:21:04.620 --> 00:21:08.340

John Warnick: Business, I think that's the thing I'm trying to bring



00:21:08.820 --> 00:21:10.620

Raymond Odom: To my clients when I



00:21:10.650 --> 00:21:13.890

Raymond Odom: Talk about this issue. I try not to get into that.



00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:15.330

Raymond Odom: dualism of



00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:17.010

John Warnick: Business family.



00:21:17.100 --> 00:21:19.500

Raymond Odom: But have this bigger context.



00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:21.900

Raymond Odom: Of relationships and



00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:26.970

Raymond Odom: A motive for profit that's designed to help people thrive.



00:21:28.410 --> 00:21:29.040

Michael Palumbos: Great.



00:21:30.360 --> 00:21:33.180

Michael Palumbos: That rolls right into it and tell me if



00:21:33.180 --> 00:21:34.440

John Warnick: It sounds right.



00:21:34.560 --> 00:21:36.840

Michael Palumbos: But when we were talking about controls.



00:21:37.140 --> 00:21:38.460

John Warnick: Versus roles.



00:21:40.410 --> 00:21:44.970

Michael Palumbos: Why don't you you know what my note here is that, you know, controls versus



00:21:44.970 --> 00:21:45.420

John Warnick: Roles.



00:21:45.780 --> 00:21:55.800

Michael Palumbos: kind of understand the difference when it comes to family shareholders and employees when the business is held inside the trust is kind of that.



00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:57.570

Michael Palumbos: Control versus Rosie, when I



00:21:57.870 --> 00:21:59.040

Michael Palumbos: Hit on that for a moment.



00:22:03.270 --> 00:22:08.040

John Warnick: I can just offer a little bit and then I'd love to hear what Ray might contribute



00:22:09.180 --> 00:22:13.350

John Warnick: I do think this is an important distinction. And today.



00:22:14.790 --> 00:22:26.130

John Warnick: Is I look back on almost a four decade long professional career serving families in the tax area, particularly in the wealth transfer planning area.



00:22:27.060 --> 00:22:47.640

John Warnick: The one thing that stands out to me if there's a trend line that you can plot and see kind of a steady progression over 40 years that trend line to me is complexity in terms of the the base documents the trust documents. When I first started practicing



00:22:48.660 --> 00:22:56.010

John Warnick: We were just on the edge of automating word processing that word processing was just beginning.



00:22:56.580 --> 00:23:08.370

John Warnick: To come into its own. And so will documents and trust documents were like average will five to six pages average trust 15 to 2025 pages, Max.



00:23:08.910 --> 00:23:24.870

John Warnick: And then you see with the proliferation of technology that the size and the complexity of these documents has grown exponentially over the last 3035 years to where now you know a common



00:23:25.890 --> 00:23:32.340

John Warnick: Quote simple trust maybe 50 to 70 pages in length. It's so, so lengthy so complex.



00:23:33.570 --> 00:23:38.850

John Warnick: What is another trend that ties back into this point. Michael is that



00:23:39.870 --> 00:23:52.650

John Warnick: It used to be predominant that we would see distributions large distributions often staggered over a period of time. It could be a chronological timed



00:23:53.070 --> 00:24:14.460

John Warnick: distribution pattern like 25 3035 or 3035 40 but the idea of a trust a perpetual trust or even a lifetime trust was less common. Today you can flip that and even modest wealth today.



00:24:15.570 --> 00:24:24.930

John Warnick: The attorney is strongly suggesting that you need an asset protection trust kind of rapper as part of your estate plan and



00:24:25.320 --> 00:24:45.930

John Warnick: This means that you want to protect your children for other lifetimes. So this leads to the idea of a lifetime or in some cases and larger states perpetual trust the generation skipping trust the so called dynasty trust. Well, how does that relate back to control and roles.



00:24:47.640 --> 00:25:00.600

John Warnick: Many times today the control and the ownership is put into trust for tax purposes or asset protection purposes and



00:25:01.740 --> 00:25:09.540

John Warnick: So the this really kind of confuses things because it used to be four or five decades ago that



00:25:10.050 --> 00:25:18.450

John Warnick: That stock would go to an individual, the individual would become an owner, they would have a role as owner



00:25:18.930 --> 00:25:37.380

John Warnick: Today, it's the trustee. More often than not, that is going to be the quote owner and the role of the beneficiary, the individual family member is difficult. So this is where I think from a trust design standpoint for business owners.



00:25:38.580 --> 00:25:54.600

John Warnick: Be careful think seriously about what does it mean to divorce or erect a huge wall between your children and the responsibilities of ownership.



00:25:55.200 --> 00:26:10.440

John Warnick: Is there a way that you can design your trust so that the children can be taught, not just to be excellent beneficiaries, but also to feel the responsibilities of ownership and to learn what it takes to be a great owner



00:26:13.290 --> 00:26:14.130

John Warnick: And re



00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:15.660

Michael Palumbos: You know when you throw



00:26:15.990 --> 00:26:22.290

Michael Palumbos: When it's the business that's inside of there, it's even 10 times more complicated. Correct.



00:26:22.890 --> 00:26:23.370

Raymond Odom: It is



00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:24.180

I think that



00:26:25.830 --> 00:26:36.510

Raymond Odom: The thing I love about trust is it's based concept. The concept of a trust says something that's really counterintuitive that the person who owns something



00:26:37.500 --> 00:26:39.660

Raymond Odom: Is not the person who



00:26:39.690 --> 00:26:42.930

Raymond Odom: Is supposed to benefit nor



00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:45.990

Raymond Odom: Is the person who benefits.



00:26:46.110 --> 00:26:47.430

Raymond Odom: In title as an



00:26:47.430 --> 00:26:47.910

John Warnick: Owner



00:26:48.300 --> 00:26:49.920

Raymond Odom: But all the benefit.



00:26:50.520 --> 00:26:58.860

Raymond Odom: Of ownership goes to the beneficiaries of the trust, but all the responsibilities and burdens of ownership goes to this.



00:26:58.860 --> 00:27:01.590

John Warnick: Person who gets zero



00:27:01.860 --> 00:27:06.450

Raymond Odom: That's a key thought zero benefit. In fact, you know, just bringing a listing



00:27:06.600 --> 00:27:08.880

Raymond Odom: That zero benefit is so small that



00:27:09.090 --> 00:27:12.300

Raymond Odom: Has done a nose. They we actually had to create



00:27:12.300 --> 00:27:13.470

John Warnick: Statutes



00:27:13.590 --> 00:27:14.310

Raymond Odom: That allowed



00:27:14.340 --> 00:27:15.870

Raymond Odom: Trustees to get paid.



00:27:16.590 --> 00:27:18.540

Raymond Odom: Because it was considered a conflict of interest.



00:27:18.570 --> 00:27:25.590

Raymond Odom: Even to get paid in the role of a trustee. Now that's not as well, you know, not problem. But the point of it is



00:27:25.830 --> 00:27:27.450

Raymond Odom: Is in the area.



00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:29.520

John Warnick: Of managing your



00:27:29.550 --> 00:27:31.740

Raymond Odom: Money, it's nice to have that



00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:32.700

John Warnick: Bifurcation



00:27:32.940 --> 00:27:39.330

Raymond Odom: But I think as john pointed out the reality that control and



00:27:39.390 --> 00:27:41.400

John Warnick: Ownership decisions.



00:27:42.750 --> 00:27:45.690

Raymond Odom: Could be disconnected or apart.



00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:47.610

John Warnick: From the actual



00:27:47.850 --> 00:27:49.830

Raymond Odom: dollar value wealth.



00:27:49.860 --> 00:27:53.550

Raymond Odom: Benefit of the dividends and the stock ownership.



00:27:53.610 --> 00:27:55.110

Raymond Odom: And the day operations.



00:27:55.320 --> 00:27:58.080

Raymond Odom: I actually think that's, that's a good way to think



00:27:58.080 --> 00:27:59.310

Raymond Odom: About things because for



00:27:59.310 --> 00:27:59.940




00:28:01.020 --> 00:28:01.920

Raymond Odom: In talking with



00:28:02.010 --> 00:28:06.600

Raymond Odom: many business owners, the idea of control and



00:28:06.600 --> 00:28:07.770

John Warnick: Benefit get



00:28:08.070 --> 00:28:09.690

Raymond Odom: Get more together.



00:28:09.780 --> 00:28:21.300

Raymond Odom: So often, that they don't have a clean and clear understanding of the long term benefits or detriments of what their business structure.



00:28:21.330 --> 00:28:23.040

Raymond Odom: Or their business decisions are doing



00:28:23.940 --> 00:28:26.820

Raymond Odom: So, because as john well put it



00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:31.650

Raymond Odom: Back in the day they owned it. They the checking account. Everything was kind of running



00:28:31.650 --> 00:28:32.280

John Warnick: Together.



00:28:32.340 --> 00:28:35.160

Raymond Odom: And so you never really thought about all the



00:28:35.190 --> 00:28:46.260

Raymond Odom: Various impacts of decision making within the business. For me, it really allows for someone, a lot of times in my trust the a CEO will be trustee.



00:28:46.290 --> 00:28:48.390

Raymond Odom: Not a corporate producer, but a CEO or



00:28:48.750 --> 00:28:52.320

Raymond Odom: Someone who's, who's got an interest in making sure the business.



00:28:52.320 --> 00:28:53.340




00:28:54.450 --> 00:29:01.380

Raymond Odom: And yet knows that put the businesses survive and for what purpose to give you a job. No, it's to give this greater



00:29:01.740 --> 00:29:03.510

Raymond Odom: Need to T called the family.



00:29:03.630 --> 00:29:07.470

Raymond Odom: The ability to thrive and survive and this group of people called



00:29:07.470 --> 00:29:08.400

John Warnick: Employees



00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:10.230

Raymond Odom: The ability to have that same thing



00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:12.390

Raymond Odom: I think a trust lends itself to that.



00:29:12.390 --> 00:29:14.430

Raymond Odom: But why do I agree with Johnny that



00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.820

Raymond Odom: Our complexity and we were kind of a cottage industry.



00:29:17.850 --> 00:29:19.770

Raymond Odom: You know, we, we, driven by taxes.



00:29:19.950 --> 00:29:21.180

Raymond Odom: But what we want to do.



00:29:21.270 --> 00:29:22.950

Raymond Odom: If you're really going to do this effectively.



00:29:22.950 --> 00:29:24.990

Raymond Odom: Is back away from the complexity.



00:29:25.170 --> 00:29:26.070

Raymond Odom: And that's why



00:29:26.130 --> 00:29:29.340

Raymond Odom: Purpose and this naming and these statements are so important in



00:29:29.340 --> 00:29:29.730

Raymond Odom: My mind.



00:29:30.810 --> 00:29:31.140

Raymond Odom: Love.



00:29:31.230 --> 00:29:33.900

Michael Palumbos: That's great. You know, it's interesting.



00:29:35.520 --> 00:29:38.790

Michael Palumbos: Naming the CEO as the trustee.



00:29:39.210 --> 00:29:41.430

Michael Palumbos: Isn't something that you hear too often.



00:29:41.580 --> 00:29:43.920

Michael Palumbos: And and it. But as soon as you say.



00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:44.280

John Warnick: It.



00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:47.670

Michael Palumbos: As soon as as soon as you connect those pieces makes



00:29:47.730 --> 00:29:51.210

Michael Palumbos: awfully good sense that you would want somebody



00:29:51.570 --> 00:29:52.980

Michael Palumbos: You know, at the helm of the



00:29:53.040 --> 00:29:53.640

John Warnick: Trust.



00:29:53.700 --> 00:29:54.330

John Warnick: That is owned



00:29:54.360 --> 00:29:55.140

Michael Palumbos: The business.



00:29:55.500 --> 00:29:56.550

Michael Palumbos: To be somebody that



00:29:56.580 --> 00:29:57.720

Michael Palumbos: You know cares about



00:29:58.230 --> 00:29:59.460

John Warnick: In charge of the business.



00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:03.150

Michael Palumbos: That's great. I've also seen it done.



00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:05.640

Michael Palumbos: In smaller cases sometimes where they'll



00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:07.860

Michael Palumbos: Split the own you know the



00:30:07.950 --> 00:30:10.950

Michael Palumbos: The shares into voting and non voting shares in the



00:30:11.100 --> 00:30:12.150

Michael Palumbos: End the voting shares



00:30:12.570 --> 00:30:14.010

John Warnick: Outside of the trust.



00:30:14.190 --> 00:30:16.740

Michael Palumbos: But the value is inside, but that causes all



00:30:16.740 --> 00:30:17.550

Michael Palumbos: Kinds of



00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:18.600

Michael Palumbos: You know,



00:30:20.010 --> 00:30:21.360

Michael Palumbos: dilemmas as well so



00:30:21.390 --> 00:30:23.760

Michael Palumbos: Sometimes I'm



00:30:24.150 --> 00:30:27.540

Michael Palumbos: The re I think I want to come back to you for a second.



00:30:27.540 --> 00:30:28.440

John Warnick: Here and



00:30:29.130 --> 00:30:29.790

Michael Palumbos: Is my is



00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:33.180

Michael Palumbos: I sound like an echoing right now.



00:30:34.020 --> 00:30:35.280

Michael Palumbos: Are you getting that



00:30:36.990 --> 00:30:38.760

John Warnick: No, I'm not. Okay.



00:30:39.750 --> 00:30:43.080

Michael Palumbos: I'm going to try and just try something here real quick just to make sure



00:30:43.140 --> 00:30:46.830

Michael Palumbos: And Sierra, feel free to throw a hand up if you see something



00:30:47.940 --> 00:30:49.260

Michael Palumbos: Or hear something rather



00:30:50.700 --> 00:30:53.070

Michael Palumbos: Thank you. The nice part about doing these as we



00:30:53.070 --> 00:30:53.580

Michael Palumbos: can edit.



00:30:53.610 --> 00:30:56.130

Michael Palumbos: Out the middle sections and



00:30:56.460 --> 00:31:01.230

Michael Palumbos: Put it together for the podcast. Um, one of the things we talked



00:31:01.230 --> 00:31:01.800

John Warnick: About



00:31:01.890 --> 00:31:03.030

Michael Palumbos: When we were together was the



00:31:03.060 --> 00:31:07.980

Michael Palumbos: Impacts of changing what to why



00:31:08.850 --> 00:31:11.640

Michael Palumbos: For the end when we're making decisions.



00:31:11.850 --> 00:31:12.480

John Warnick: Do you want to



00:31:12.690 --> 00:31:13.140

Michael Palumbos: Talk us



00:31:13.320 --> 00:31:14.400

Michael Palumbos: Talk about that a little bit.



00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:14.940

John Warnick: Right.



00:31:15.150 --> 00:31:16.920

Michael Palumbos: And then, Johnny, I'll throw it over to you.



00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:19.710

Raymond Odom: Um,



00:31:20.310 --> 00:31:23.070

Raymond Odom: For me, that why is everything because



00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:25.350

Raymond Odom: You know you had mentioned in our



00:31:25.380 --> 00:31:27.660

John Warnick: Pre talk, the idea of



00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:31.080

Raymond Odom: You know the infinite game.



00:31:31.290 --> 00:31:31.710

Raymond Odom: And



00:31:31.860 --> 00:31:34.650

Raymond Odom: Just cause. And I think that's right.



00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:35.220

Raymond Odom: Is that



00:31:35.370 --> 00:31:36.810

John Warnick: Especially in these times.



00:31:37.770 --> 00:31:39.030

Raymond Odom: And one of the things that coca



00:31:39.630 --> 00:31:40.110

John Warnick: Is done



00:31:40.140 --> 00:31:43.020

Raymond Odom: If we're really honest with each other. It's really



00:31:43.080 --> 00:31:43.890

John Warnick: Made us



00:31:43.950 --> 00:31:44.970

John Warnick: Think about



00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:53.100

Raymond Odom: What really matters right all the sudden when the the urgency of daily decisions.



00:31:53.610 --> 00:31:54.180

John Warnick: Can



00:31:54.630 --> 00:31:56.790

Raymond Odom: Kind of rise to its normal



00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:58.950

Raymond Odom: Kind of importance, you're



00:31:58.980 --> 00:32:00.810

Raymond Odom: You're kind of left with. Okay.



00:32:01.020 --> 00:32:02.130

Raymond Odom: Well then.



00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:04.620

Raymond Odom: If that's not the urgency what's



00:32:04.770 --> 00:32:08.850

Raymond Odom: What's really important. The urgent is important. And now you're back to the



00:32:08.850 --> 00:32:09.900

Raymond Odom: Things I think that



00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:10.950

John Warnick: That really do.



00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:24.750

Raymond Odom: Kind of kind of drive the decision making. And I think that, why is absolutely key. And that's what I was trying to allude to earlier when I said yes, it's a business decision.



00:32:25.350 --> 00:32:36.180

Raymond Odom: But why does the business need to exist wise and I'll just give you one quick example. And moreover, is I have a she's not a client. So I can, I can kind of talk freely.



00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:48.000

Raymond Odom: They own medical records company and the person literally define the medical records come says we exist. Our Why is to help people have better health.



00:32:48.810 --> 00:33:00.750

Raymond Odom: And they need to get records and we and that purpose. Just permeated everything the trust makes sense. The moment. And literally, and it makes sense, even to the family.



00:33:01.290 --> 00:33:07.950

Raymond Odom: But the why of the business begins to permeate everything about how you do what you do.



00:33:08.310 --> 00:33:21.930

Raymond Odom: And to me that's that's essential if you're going to have any kind of longevity and if you're ever going to have any synergy between family where there's relationships are, you know, important over generations and a business entity, whether it were profit as the main motive.



00:33:25.170 --> 00:33:29.040

Michael Palumbos: Agreed. Trying to Johnny I muted you. For out there you



00:33:29.040 --> 00:33:29.490




00:33:30.600 --> 00:33:31.020

Michael Palumbos: Um,



00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:34.230

John Warnick: Yeah, I just



00:33:35.610 --> 00:33:50.460

John Warnick: Kind of climb right on top of Ray's bandwagon there and say that I think if you ask the question why a trust why this particular trust that we're



00:33:50.880 --> 00:34:04.710

John Warnick: Designing if we're in the process of creating a trust or if we're thinking about already existing trust what is the principal purpose or purposes of this trust.



00:34:06.360 --> 00:34:14.850

John Warnick: You know, why doesn't get as much deference and attention and energy as it deserves. I think as you were pointing out, Michael.



00:34:15.420 --> 00:34:30.930

John Warnick: The what which is oftentimes the asset, whether it's a controlling interest in a business or significant interest in a business or investable assets or the family cottage or whatever it might be.



00:34:31.950 --> 00:34:42.480

John Warnick: It oftentimes feels like we're paying much more attention and the drafting is much more focused on the what the assets.



00:34:43.020 --> 00:34:57.330

John Warnick: That are going to be the financial capital side of this trust equation and we just short trip completely the other though the wise that go to



00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:10.560

John Warnick: Why, what, what is the ultimate purpose for this. Why am I doing this, you know, what do I hope to accomplish. So being able to unleash and help a trust creator



00:35:11.190 --> 00:35:21.930

John Warnick: And I use that term very intentionally. There are trust makers trust settlers trust Grand Tours, but I love working with trust creators a trust creator



00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:45.360

John Warnick: understands their role to very creative role. It takes a lot of energy vision thought and emotion positive emotion to really create a truly purposeful trust, but as they began to approach this question of why we I'm speaking now of the Michaels, the raise the



00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:57.210

John Warnick: John A's and any other advisor that is listening to this podcast we can do so much to help stretch the vision of our clients.



00:35:57.570 --> 00:36:08.640

John Warnick: And help them understand that there is a whole nother world out there a possible wise that they haven't considered that if they do get



00:36:09.090 --> 00:36:22.860

John Warnick: An opportunity to consider. They make quickly jump on those wise and go. This really is very, very important to me and I want to make sure that we carry make this this a key purpose of what we're doing.



00:36:23.910 --> 00:36:24.240

John Warnick: Yeah.



00:36:25.590 --> 00:36:28.230

Michael Palumbos: Ray when you talked about the health medical



00:36:28.350 --> 00:36:30.900

Michael Palumbos: The medical records company.



00:36:31.470 --> 00:36:34.620

Michael Palumbos: It triggered the book we were talking about was the infinite



00:36:34.620 --> 00:36:36.180

Michael Palumbos: Game by Simon snack.



00:36:36.240 --> 00:36:38.340

Michael Palumbos: Simon cynics and



00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:40.110

Michael Palumbos: You'll love this. I don't know.



00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:42.750

Michael Palumbos: When you get a chance to read it. He talks.



00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:43.380

Michael Palumbos: About



00:36:44.010 --> 00:36:45.570

Three different



00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:49.830

Michael Palumbos: Pharmaceutical companies not pharmaceutical



00:36:50.940 --> 00:36:51.600

Michael Palumbos: Come on.



00:36:53.190 --> 00:36:53.790

Michael Palumbos: Pharmacies



00:36:54.600 --> 00:37:00.660

Michael Palumbos: And I'm not going to name names, but we all know, you know, the major pharmacy plot, you know, pharmacy throughout the United States.



00:37:01.170 --> 00:37:03.420

Michael Palumbos: And all of them to a tee.



00:37:03.810 --> 00:37:04.650

John Warnick: Their



00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:06.000

Michael Palumbos: Their greater good.



00:37:06.060 --> 00:37:07.980

Michael Palumbos: They're just cause



00:37:08.340 --> 00:37:10.380

Michael Palumbos: Is to help



00:37:10.410 --> 00:37:11.160

John Warnick: The health



00:37:11.490 --> 00:37:12.840

John Warnick: Of the patients.



00:37:12.900 --> 00:37:13.770

John Warnick: That they serve.



00:37:13.950 --> 00:37:16.260

Michael Palumbos: Right and and the people that they



00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:18.120

Michael Palumbos: Serve and



00:37:18.150 --> 00:37:20.070

Michael Palumbos: One of the companies.



00:37:20.430 --> 00:37:21.690

Michael Palumbos: Cut cigarettes out of



00:37:21.690 --> 00:37:22.440




00:37:23.460 --> 00:37:25.230

Michael Palumbos: You know out of their inventory



00:37:25.260 --> 00:37:28.200

Michael Palumbos: No longer, it doesn't fit. And this was they did it.



00:37:28.200 --> 00:37:30.120

Michael Palumbos: Before it mattered.



00:37:30.270 --> 00:37:31.980

John Warnick: They did it before people were



00:37:32.040 --> 00:37:33.270

Michael Palumbos: Were yelling about it.



00:37:33.900 --> 00:37:41.130

Michael Palumbos: And then the other companies that didn't when they were asked and Simon actually reached out to several of them.



00:37:41.520 --> 00:37:45.570

Michael Palumbos: To say, you know, your core purpose. You're just cause says to



00:37:45.810 --> 00:37:47.310

Michael Palumbos: Help the health of



00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:48.870




00:37:50.820 --> 00:38:01.470

Michael Palumbos: You know your constituents and your the people that you serve. But yet it you sell cigarettes in your stores. How do you reconcile that



00:38:01.890 --> 00:38:15.570

Michael Palumbos: And that's a really good way of thinking about those things, what was really interesting was most people you know when they're focused on the bottom line, they're focused on the shareholder returns, or the dividends that they're going to be able to pay



00:38:16.200 --> 00:38:21.120

Michael Palumbos: They would, you know, they might be scared to make a call like that.



00:38:22.140 --> 00:38:31.560

Michael Palumbos: What they found was that it didn't hurt them nearly as much as it helped them. They saw revenues increase. They saw the sales of



00:38:32.730 --> 00:38:36.660

Michael Palumbos: Tobacco patches, you know, and people that wanted to quit smoking.



00:38:36.900 --> 00:38:48.630

Michael Palumbos: Those things all went up. And so those same people, you know, in their mind that were coming through the store and buying cigarettes. They just helped them to make that decision to say now must be the time to say, you know, it's time for me to quit.



00:38:49.290 --> 00:38:52.860

Michael Palumbos: And that just cause can really make a big difference.



00:38:53.430 --> 00:39:05.670

Raymond Odom: You know, I love that that stories, those are those are excellent. And one of the keys that's always been something john as emphasize, you've got to rehearse the stories.



00:39:06.180 --> 00:39:15.120

Raymond Odom: And that's a lot of people get when you walk in a room with with with especially people who are on calls like this entrepreneurs.



00:39:16.080 --> 00:39:27.150

Raymond Odom: You know, and, and she is really driven by her next quarterly report or annual report the decisions I have to work about the business and its current environment.



00:39:27.450 --> 00:39:36.000

Raymond Odom: And you say, well, what's your why statement, they're looking at you like, are you kidding me, but the reality is this when I try to do is back them up.



00:39:36.540 --> 00:39:46.890

Raymond Odom: And just as you did with us, and you did a really nice job, like you said Ray, how did you get to where you are. And it's almost you're asking me that



00:39:47.430 --> 00:40:00.690

Raymond Odom: Actually began to change the way I was thinking about some things I was saying. And it's so natural, because when you ask the question, it requires me to add some purpose and some



00:40:01.290 --> 00:40:06.240

Raymond Odom: Shall we say calm trajectory to what it is I'm doing and why I'm doing it.



00:40:06.690 --> 00:40:13.920

Raymond Odom: And it is embedded in that story and all those drug companies, of course would say well we got into it because we saw solution with it.



00:40:14.250 --> 00:40:26.400

Raymond Odom: And the more you kind of fine tune those stories purpose jumps out. And this is the thing I think that most of our clients and our business owners don't realize



00:40:26.730 --> 00:40:40.200

Raymond Odom: That in rehearsing the backstory, the deeper story. The reason for your being, you will find the things that will make your company more profitable and your family, more durable.



00:40:41.970 --> 00:40:52.290

Michael Palumbos: A grade. It's a it just, there's a lot to it. And I think, you know, it's easier for a family business to



00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:54.060

John Warnick: Think about purpose.



00:40:54.690 --> 00:40:55.800

Michael Palumbos: A lot of times



00:40:55.830 --> 00:41:12.210

Michael Palumbos: Than it is for the you know the public companies because you're really pushed on those quarterly pieces, you know, go back to, you know, we talked about purposeful or persistent right well you when you are thinking about a business that is persistent



00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:15.600

Michael Palumbos: And you're a family you



00:41:15.630 --> 00:41:19.290

Michael Palumbos: I think it is potentially is, you know, needs to be reminded.



00:41:19.560 --> 00:41:20.700

John Warnick: You know, at times.



00:41:20.970 --> 00:41:39.120

Michael Palumbos: But it's easier to sit back and say, we don't have to think about this in terms of course we can think about this in terms of generations and and that's, you know, a really strong positive for people. They don't necessarily have to have the returns tomorrow.



00:41:40.530 --> 00:41:48.780

Michael Palumbos: And that's powerful. And so when you put those that you know the persistent and the purposeful together. That's huge.



00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:55.560

Michael Palumbos: Johnny. We talked about, you know, and we'd hit about trusts and the family business a little bit



00:41:55.830 --> 00:41:57.870

John Warnick: But when we, when we start talking



00:41:57.870 --> 00:42:12.000

Michael Palumbos: About creating a trust that is going to hold the family business in perpetuity. There's a lot of intricacies inside of there that people need to be thinking about



00:42:13.590 --> 00:42:19.800

Michael Palumbos: Is there anything you know we talked about it before, where do you want to take that. What would you like to share with



00:42:20.220 --> 00:42:37.500

John Warnick: Regard I think what you're asking. Michael is could take, you know, another full hour for us to even begin to get deep into that and there's so much probably more even than we could cover, but I think



00:42:38.790 --> 00:42:48.630

John Warnick: You know, things that you've got to pay attention to is Ray mentioned this a little bit. There's a tension here between the



00:42:49.230 --> 00:43:07.200

John Warnick: The demands the needs of the business and the personal individual demands of the family members. Right. And part of where that shows up is in the world of distributions and a trustee has a duty to



00:43:08.430 --> 00:43:13.200

John Warnick: You know generally to try to maximize the return on investment.



00:43:14.790 --> 00:43:28.380

John Warnick: This would include, you know, wanting to see cash flow distributions coming to the trust so they can be distributed to the beneficiaries, but having a thoughtful process around



00:43:29.670 --> 00:43:42.330

John Warnick: Being able to balance the needs of the business versus the needs of the family that's very, very important. Trying to think creatively and this is where I think ray and I have both done a lot of



00:43:43.590 --> 00:43:55.200

John Warnick: Interesting thinking and doing and working with clients who've taught us a lot is, it's very easy for family members to become entitled



00:43:56.490 --> 00:44:10.620

John Warnick: Around distributions and to develop really a sense of entitlement. So how do we combat that. I think that's that that's one of the great questions in the design of a trust is to



00:44:11.340 --> 00:44:22.830

John Warnick: And how do we how do we also cultivate a sense of stewardship around this family business. And then I think another sometimes sadly owners will not consider



00:44:24.030 --> 00:44:42.120

John Warnick: But the possibility that the day may come when it's in the best interest of the family in the best interest of employees of the business itself to dispose of the business, whether that is taking it public, whether that selling



00:44:43.980 --> 00:44:57.330

John Warnick: liquidating whatever that outcome is. So I think a lot of creative thoughtful intention around who the trustee is going to be. Are you going to have



00:44:58.500 --> 00:45:07.170

John Warnick: Investment Advisors, is there going to be kind of like a in one situation that I worked on recently with raise



00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:28.140

John Warnick: Company as the trustee. We put a lot of time and effort into designing a directed trust that would give us, you know, there, there are issues about concentrated position and the responsibility of trustee has to diversify. So we're just, you know, I've hit four or five



00:45:29.190 --> 00:45:40.530

John Warnick: Points that are important and Ray could probably add a dozen more. So I hope that that was helpful. Michael, but given the time limitations. I don't know that we can cover everything. No.



00:45:40.590 --> 00:45:44.190

Michael Palumbos: Yeah, that was exactly what we're looking for. It's just understand



00:45:44.550 --> 00:45:58.140

Michael Palumbos: That it is complicated. Here's a real quick. You know I mentioned this at the top of the show that you're both act tech attorneys and. And one of the things that I think this is so important for people



00:45:59.190 --> 00:46:06.180

Michael Palumbos: If you own a family business. If you have created some wealth that you have to look at the team.



00:46:06.570 --> 00:46:16.110

Michael Palumbos: Of advisors that is around you and I just think this is a really good time to hit on this and that's that, you know, I've seen this. So, oftentimes, where



00:46:16.470 --> 00:46:28.800

Michael Palumbos: You know, the family has been supported by a general attorney and you know they were at $5 million and 10 years later, they're now a $50 million dollar enterprise.



00:46:29.220 --> 00:46:40.500

Michael Palumbos: And they're still using for all of their trust and estate work and tax work. They're still using that same person who is also helped them with all the real



00:46:40.500 --> 00:46:43.950

Michael Palumbos: estate deals and the business deals and the things that they put together.



00:46:44.400 --> 00:47:00.090

Michael Palumbos: And there are times there are times when that's okay. And then, but I think it's more rare that somebody who is a general attorney and practice many areas of laws with the family through out you know their timeframe.



00:47:01.470 --> 00:47:10.740

Michael Palumbos: Has the expertise that someone like one of you know either one of you brings to the table when you're doing this kind of design work would you



00:47:11.250 --> 00:47:17.400

John Warnick: Would you agree with that statement. I would totally agree with that and just add that



00:47:18.990 --> 00:47:31.350

John Warnick: Yeah, that that person who's been there on the front lines for the family that lawyer has a wealth of experience insight and knowledge that is irreplaceable.



00:47:31.740 --> 00:47:46.860

John Warnick: So bringing in quote a trust tax expert from 600 or 1000 miles away may add something but i i would favor a system that we keep that individual very much part of the team.



00:47:48.180 --> 00:48:00.030

John Warnick: There then try to impose the vision and the framework that the outsider from a couple, three states away brings which it can be very helpful and insightful.



00:48:00.420 --> 00:48:13.320

John Warnick: And their expertise may be absolutely critical, depending on the level of complexity level of wealth, but there is a lot to be said for honoring the professional relationships that are already in place.



00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:17.580

John Warnick: And I think too often there's a power.



00:48:18.900 --> 00:48:31.590

John Warnick: You know, the client is like the rag doll in the middle of this power struggle between competing professionals and we need collaboration. We don't need competition and



00:48:32.010 --> 00:48:33.510

Michael Palumbos: Hundred percent ray. Go ahead.



00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:55.770

Raymond Odom: Yes, I think it's really to the whole role and control issue that we kind of surface, just briefly, is that when you get a your why question really in place what john. I said, really becomes critical because the person who was a part of that, why now has the best in capital.



00:48:55.860 --> 00:48:58.350

Raymond Odom: That will always be valuable to the organization.



00:48:58.860 --> 00:49:03.870

Raymond Odom: Because when you're based on the why you have to have the person who was a part of that. Why always



00:49:04.080 --> 00:49:12.630

Raymond Odom: Present and available. And so what happens is you just simply change the roles and you don't get confused.



00:49:12.990 --> 00:49:13.980

Raymond Odom: By professionals.



00:49:14.040 --> 00:49:32.820

Raymond Odom: Who are trying to control. And I think that's what really Johnny's really making a strong point on is once you turn the family business and settings and transactions into who gets to make some decision and you boil it down to some kind of transactional control, you've lost



00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:34.530

Raymond Odom: Everything in terms of



00:49:34.530 --> 00:49:45.420

Raymond Odom: What we're trying to advise here. And I think that absolutely Johnny sort of mid major point is that that person who has outgrown the transactional capital.



00:49:45.510 --> 00:49:48.360

Raymond Odom: Is the person who has increased.



00:49:48.720 --> 00:49:54.030

Raymond Odom: In relational and in historical capital and we need that.



00:49:54.360 --> 00:50:06.180

Michael Palumbos: Yeah, it becomes a not an either or situation, but a both and situation and learning to collaborate on a is really good, I think.



00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:25.020

Michael Palumbos: Yeah, I feel that the a lot of advisors my, you know, myself included, I have been in a situation where you know you're working with a family, and then you just know that the attorney doesn't have the



00:50:26.100 --> 00:50:36.300

Michael Palumbos: The expertise, the mastery of the document itself. I'm just talking about the tactical side of pieces to be able to bring in that expertise that's needed



00:50:36.630 --> 00:50:43.290

Michael Palumbos: But we that that advisor has to be very careful that it's not a displacement



00:50:43.650 --> 00:50:54.930

Michael Palumbos: It's a, an, in addition, we just need to add a member of the team. It's like having the designated hitter. It's, you know, you don't have the picture running it, you know, doing everything the quarterback doesn't do everything in the play.



00:50:55.140 --> 00:50:59.040

Michael Palumbos: It's being able to know when to bring those right players in and and and



00:50:59.100 --> 00:51:00.000

John Warnick: And to honor



00:51:00.180 --> 00:51:04.620

Michael Palumbos: You know, both of you mentioned that we really need to honor that relationship.



00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:06.270

John Warnick: That the



00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:07.770

Michael Palumbos: Family attorney.



00:51:07.830 --> 00:51:10.020

Michael Palumbos: The general attorney has had with that family for



00:51:10.050 --> 00:51:11.100

John Warnick: All these years because the



00:51:11.100 --> 00:51:12.480

Michael Palumbos: Knowledge is irreplaceable.



00:51:12.510 --> 00:51:21.090

Michael Palumbos: May need to know that that's I appreciate that. There's a little wasn't in our pre in our pre meeting, but that's why I you know like to do this stuff.



00:51:21.750 --> 00:51:33.990

Michael Palumbos: Um, we've got two other topics that I want to make sure that we have time to hit both of them and they're so closely related. I start with you, Ray. And, you know,



00:51:34.380 --> 00:51:36.000

Michael Palumbos: We talked about the gold.



00:51:36.210 --> 00:51:50.700

Michael Palumbos: Standard G. O. L. Not the not the gold standard, which I think a lot of people when you hear that the first time you just want to say what's the gold standard for a trust. But when you talk about is the gold standard. So walk us through the gold standard for a little bit.



00:51:51.240 --> 00:52:02.490

Raymond Odom: Right. I think the key idea is that when you think about how everybody in business is successful, it's because the business has a goal. Now we measure that goal by profit.



00:52:03.030 --> 00:52:05.670

Raymond Odom: But the point is, is that they had a goal.



00:52:05.820 --> 00:52:17.250

Raymond Odom: And that's why all of our business related clients understand the idea that you're trying to get an accomplished in objective that has some you know byproduct of wealth connected to it.



00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:29.910

Raymond Odom: And then what we do in estate planning and in a lot of our business plan, we try to do is back them away from that goal. And we get them into some kind of a much more nebulous world of saving taxes.



00:52:30.570 --> 00:52:39.600

Raymond Odom: From laws that aren't even created yet for future administration's that haven't even taken office and all of a sudden, we're now into kind of like crystal ball stuff.



00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:55.800

Raymond Odom: And the client gets lost in the acronyms and all these things. But with that, the idea of a goal, what I've tried to do is really talk about almost the virtuous company. It's like the just cause when I use



00:52:56.400 --> 00:53:05.580

Raymond Odom: The, the virtuous family. What we're really trying to do. The goal is to do good to have a good company. You know, I



00:53:05.610 --> 00:53:07.620

John Warnick: You say that. And sometimes people come, you know,



00:53:07.680 --> 00:53:09.600

Raymond Odom: Say, Oh, that's a little bit too soft me but



00:53:09.630 --> 00:53:10.620

Raymond Odom: Now you look at



00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:12.600

Raymond Odom: The SG and



00:53:12.660 --> 00:53:22.110

Raymond Odom: All the public companies who are getting tremendous pressure around these issues and you realize that these smaller companies have a better opportunity to do that.



00:53:22.260 --> 00:53:23.220

John Warnick: And so for me.



00:53:23.550 --> 00:53:30.600

Raymond Odom: That whole idea of goal is to have a purposefulness that's transcendent to the day to day operations.



00:53:31.200 --> 00:53:54.780

Raymond Odom: And that allows everybody to we center and something you said earlier, Michael is the kind of goal that allows an individual or family to decide that selling actually is the right thing to do. And I am so tired, people say, oh, we don't serve sleeves and services.



00:53:54.780 --> 00:53:55.890

John Warnick: Insurance well



00:53:56.100 --> 00:53:56.730

Raymond Odom: If certainly



00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:58.170

Raymond Odom: What's your goal. That's not bad.



00:54:01.980 --> 00:54:04.020

Raymond Odom: Some business owners and say, Look, I want my my



00:54:04.140 --> 00:54:23.760

Raymond Odom: Grandchildren I have certainly, you know, certainly they learn how to how to build towards getting a suit but the reality is, for me the key aspect of goal is to define purpose in a succinct transcendent way that encompasses the virtue of doing good in the greatest sense possible



00:54:25.740 --> 00:54:26.220

Michael Palumbos: Thank you.



00:54:27.810 --> 00:54:28.890

Michael Palumbos: John a



00:54:29.970 --> 00:54:39.060

Michael Palumbos: I think you know where you and I really you struck a chord with me. Many, many years ago when I



00:54:39.060 --> 00:54:40.890

Michael Palumbos: took your purposeful trusts.



00:54:40.920 --> 00:55:00.540

Michael Palumbos: Program and and I have utilized the purposeful naming of a trust with many clients and it's been, you know, for me, it's been very, very fulfilling. Some of the stories that we have heard



00:55:01.860 --> 00:55:06.060

Michael Palumbos: Are great. One of the things that I'm going to ask you to do is talk about the purposeful naming of a



00:55:06.060 --> 00:55:06.780

John Warnick: Trust.



00:55:07.230 --> 00:55:07.950

Michael Palumbos: But it also



00:55:07.980 --> 00:55:19.890

Michael Palumbos: You had talked about the purposeful naming of the family enterprise or the holding company and how that can work together. And I think for, you know, our family businesses listening. That's important.



00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:34.890

Michael Palumbos: Um, the other thing that I'd like you to hit on you know so there's a bunch here and re at anytime you want to jump in, or add something. Feel free is, where is this will be a little back and forth, because I think this will be fun. The other piece Johnny is



00:55:36.180 --> 00:55:39.900

Michael Palumbos: If it's your trust or if it's a client of yours.



00:55:40.200 --> 00:55:43.950

Michael Palumbos: And they've come up with the name. How do you help them.



00:55:44.340 --> 00:55:47.490

Michael Palumbos: You know, whether it's the trust or it's the holding company.



00:55:47.670 --> 00:55:49.020

John Warnick: How do we dig deep to



00:55:49.020 --> 00:55:49.650

Michael Palumbos: Make sure that



00:55:49.710 --> 00:55:59.730

Michael Palumbos: A generation from now or two generations from now after that person has gone that we've imbedded that that name. And then how do we bring out that



00:55:59.730 --> 00:56:01.140

Michael Palumbos: Flavor, so to speak.



00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:03.960

Michael Palumbos: How do we marinate it so that it's always there for them.



00:56:06.510 --> 00:56:06.870




00:56:09.060 --> 00:56:27.330

John Warnick: That's like Ben Michael a lot. The two on and I'll try to do it quickly. And I do think if it's possible. One of the things that we can do to make this more concrete and for everyone is I do have some sample.



00:56:28.620 --> 00:56:41.670

John Warnick: Clauses that show the variety of purposes. The linkage between purpose, meaning and name and how that plays into family enterprise or a trust but



00:56:42.150 --> 00:56:53.460

John Warnick: If we think about it from the trust standpoint, the reason I think that name is an overlooked, it's the most often overlooked opportunity to make addressed.



00:56:53.850 --> 00:57:15.090

John Warnick: Purposeful, it is in my mind, the simplest, most powerful way to do it. And it really just takes to kind of ingredients. One is a purposeful name. So what is a purposeful name or a purposeful name would be choosing a name that has symbolism, meaning



00:57:16.140 --> 00:57:32.460

John Warnick: Purpose associated linked into it and then to help everyone understand what that symbolism meaning or purpose is to create what I call a statement of meaning that statement of meaning can be just



00:57:33.870 --> 00:57:35.400

John Warnick: You know, it can be just



00:57:37.020 --> 00:57:49.020

John Warnick: A paragraph two or three paragraphs. It doesn't have to be pages. Some of the most powerful opportunities or examples that I've seen have been very



00:57:51.300 --> 00:58:02.790

John Warnick: Very short and powerful. So let me see if I can apologize, but I'm going to try to see if I can quickly find an example and just share it, read it.



00:58:03.420 --> 00:58:18.060

John Warnick: To you. I think one of them that really strikes me as the most powerful is the red Corvette opportunity trust. Now this was a name that was given to a trust.



00:58:19.560 --> 00:58:48.420

John Warnick: By a client about 12 years ago when I was working with her and her key purposes for the creation of this trust gift that she was making for her family members was one she wanted to prepare train, equip her children. So they would be able to manage and direct their trust inheritance.



00:58:49.590 --> 00:58:58.800

John Warnick: This second very, very important purpose was she wanted to give them opportunities to become all that they could become



00:58:59.490 --> 00:59:07.380

John Warnick: And a third opportunity that the name doesn't necessarily directly hit, but was in the statement of meaning.



00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:23.940

John Warnick: Was she hoped that through this trust, even though she was giving them independence and allowing each of them to find their own path that they would be a support to each other and that the family.



00:59:25.350 --> 00:59:34.860

John Warnick: The family fabric could remain very cohesive and strong and not fracture at her death.



00:59:35.310 --> 00:59:46.980

John Warnick: So she called it the red Corvette opportunity trust. I'm going to paraphrase because I haven't found my example here as quickly as I hope she said something like this. JOHN warning taught me the story of the red Corvette.



00:59:48.030 --> 00:59:55.710

John Warnick: How smart, would it be for a parent on their child's 16th BIRTHDAY TO SAY, sweetheart. There's a brand new.



00:59:56.190 --> 01:00:11.880

John Warnick: shiny red Corvette in the driveway. Here are the keys. I want you to take that that out on I five and have the ride of your life. In fact, invite as many of your friends as you can pile into that that



01:00:13.710 --> 01:00:27.930

John Warnick: And she then said, just as it would be unwise for a parent to entrust a powerful vehicle like a Corvette to their child without it, getting the car insured without



01:00:28.650 --> 01:00:39.300

John Warnick: Making sure the child had been to driver's education without familiarizing the child with all of the features in power of that vehicle.



01:00:40.410 --> 01:00:57.450

John Warnick: So if I were to make you trustee of your trust immediately upon my death. That would be like giving you the shiny red Corvette on your 16th birthday, so I've prepared a trustee beneficiary training program that you will be



01:00:58.440 --> 01:01:07.710

John Warnick: Given the opportunity to go through and you can learn at your own pace move as fast as you want but when you've completed and been certified as being ready



01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:24.450

John Warnick: To drive your trust the keys will be given you will have full control over your trust. At that point, and then she went on to talk about the opportunity and how she hoped they would support each other and she close with something like enjoy the ride.



01:01:26.430 --> 01:01:37.380

John Warnick: So that's, that is, you know, the idea behind that name is that every time her children received a quarterly trust statement.



01:01:37.890 --> 01:01:45.570

John Warnick: The name of the trust with flash up there, they would have been introduced to the statement of meaning. It was at the very beginning of the trust.



01:01:45.930 --> 01:01:56.430

John Warnick: They every time they saw the name they would instantly red Corvette opportunity trust they would understand the red Corvette, the training preparation.



01:01:56.940 --> 01:02:08.910

John Warnick: Stewardship side of it and they would also understand the key of the importance of opportunity and so they'd be reminded, with every statement. Every time they were



01:02:09.330 --> 01:02:14.070

John Warnick: Looked at that name. It would trigger a reflection back on what mattered most to their mom.



01:02:14.490 --> 01:02:32.580

John Warnick: In the creation of this trust. So that's just a possibility and the beauty of this is, is that we can do the same thing with holding companies investment LLC even operating businesses. I've seen renamed to carry a name that the family felt very, very tied to



01:02:34.950 --> 01:02:49.470

Michael Palumbos: I think you know we all all know of one, you know, a company called Whole Foods, you know, just, it really simple. They did a great job with those, you know, with the name and



01:02:49.530 --> 01:02:50.850

John Warnick: If you look you that that's



01:02:50.850 --> 01:02:53.310

Michael Palumbos: A really interesting company might be a good example for you.



01:02:53.310 --> 01:03:06.630

Michael Palumbos: Guys to take a peek at some time, they look at their values and their purpose. And when the year they started. They were in Austin, Texas.



01:03:07.230 --> 01:03:12.930

Michael Palumbos: I can't remember john and Renee. And I don't remember the rest of the story. But basically,



01:03:13.230 --> 01:03:24.090

Michael Palumbos: Austin, Texas was experiencing floods the store got flooded, but because of their core purpose was so big and so meaningful to the people that they served



01:03:24.300 --> 01:03:36.210

Michael Palumbos: They had customers show up at their store, the day after the storm with mops and buckets and cleaning supplies to help because the volunteerism was driven by



01:03:36.240 --> 01:03:37.800

Michael Palumbos: The core purpose of that.



01:03:37.830 --> 01:03:39.270

Organization, so



01:03:40.290 --> 01:03:50.880

Michael Palumbos: Ray, when we talk about namings, you know, naming of a trust I don't be I never asked you this, but is that something that that you do as well. Have you been down that road.



01:03:51.180 --> 01:03:58.290

Raymond Odom: No question. I don't have didn't make as powerful and has clearly delineated kind of



01:03:59.190 --> 01:04:15.960

Raymond Odom: You know statements and things as as Johnny did but it's interesting. I actually would would put more time into the name when as john a was talking, I thought about the trust I opened up talking about in my own experience.



01:04:16.890 --> 01:04:25.350

Raymond Odom: In terms of how I came to be where I am right now in the trust business. And what happened was we named the core trust.



01:04:26.580 --> 01:04:49.740

Raymond Odom: That had a operating business in it. After the name of the ranch. Well, the name of the ranch was a very personal and really quite spunky little name and that literally for everyone involved said we're family.



01:04:50.880 --> 01:05:00.510

Raymond Odom: Where we have a long and rich history that was designed to benefit our family for the benefit.



01:05:01.620 --> 01:05:02.640

Raymond Odom: Of the community.



01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:12.090

Raymond Odom: And so, literally, and of course the one of the things that you know the ranch wind up having on it was talk of a conservation easement.



01:05:13.230 --> 01:05:24.180

Raymond Odom: You know, there was certain other kind of, you know, ecological things that were done, but all of it flowed so nicely from the concept



01:05:24.480 --> 01:05:33.150

Raymond Odom: Of why the the ranch was in place and as the business which was within the trust that was named after the ranch. Now I think about it.



01:05:33.390 --> 01:05:51.480

Raymond Odom: And I listen listen to Johnny's kind of talk about the Corvette, literally. There were stories in rules that allowed the people who are involved in the business to actually mature and grow my one quick example is this



01:05:51.870 --> 01:06:06.480

Raymond Odom: When everybody has a little child that's under 345 you say don't go in the street. It is an absolute rule and that rule will save their life and you must enforce it and make it a big deal.



01:06:06.930 --> 01:06:18.180

Raymond Odom: However, if they are still following that rule when they're 25 years old, you're going to put them in some kind of structured institution for mental health. Okay.



01:06:18.660 --> 01:06:23.670

Raymond Odom: And so, what changes. What changes is you have a core purpose.



01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:37.260

Raymond Odom: That the rule was designed to effectuate and if you're not clear about what that is. I eat. We're trying to save your life from being struck by cars that may not be watching, if you don't get that that bigger why involved.



01:06:37.530 --> 01:06:43.710

Raymond Odom: You're going to have someone who's going to be dysfunctional at the greatest extent. And that to me is what happens with a lot of



01:06:44.250 --> 01:06:49.650

Raymond Odom: trust companies with interest, where there's not this kind of is Johnny's come up with



01:06:50.250 --> 01:06:57.510

Raymond Odom: A naming sort of convention that ties to a purpose that ties to a story that ties to the distributions and ties.



01:06:57.810 --> 01:07:03.090

Raymond Odom: To eight individuals who are trying to balance, something that's very difficult to balance.



01:07:03.390 --> 01:07:15.120

Raymond Odom: The good of the beneficiaries versus the good of the company versus the good of the community versus the good of future generations those considerations are best judged and



01:07:15.660 --> 01:07:24.510

Raymond Odom: transitioned to the biggest and best ongoing purpose statement and and naming and reminder that you can have. Yeah.



01:07:25.590 --> 01:07:35.760

Michael Palumbos: THANK YOU, JOHN AND I'LL GIVE YOU A props for this one I remember hearing you say this, you would never allow the doctor or nurse to name your child.



01:07:37.170 --> 01:07:47.550

Michael Palumbos: So if you, if that's the case, then why would you do that with your trust or with your business or your, your entity, it's just a great statement.



01:07:49.350 --> 01:08:04.230

Michael Palumbos: Oh, gentleman like you said Johnny and Ray I think the three of us need to do this again another time. There's so many avenues that we could have gone down that we didn't. This is just a great teaser to be talking about



01:08:04.560 --> 01:08:05.220

John Warnick: You know,



01:08:05.370 --> 01:08:08.070

Michael Palumbos: Putting the gold standard to a purposeful trust.



01:08:08.100 --> 01:08:15.540

Michael Palumbos: And and making sure that you're naming them properly and I really appreciate the time that you spent with all of us today.



01:08:16.920 --> 01:08:31.560

Michael Palumbos: What I'd like to like you to do is just kind of close out and let people know you know if they wanted to reach out, you know, and work with either one of you how do they get ahold of you, where do they find you know information about



01:08:31.650 --> 01:08:35.400

Michael Palumbos: About you, as we're out in the world and what part of the



01:08:35.460 --> 01:08:37.740

Michael Palumbos: Geographically, what part of the world are you



01:08:40.770 --> 01:08:41.730

John Warnick: Ready. Do you want to go first.



01:08:42.570 --> 01:08:43.650

No, why don't you go first.



01:08:45.390 --> 01:09:00.180

John Warnick: Well, I think the best way to reach me I'll give my phone number area code 720-458-7777 Extension one that's my number of the purposeful planning Institute.



01:09:01.530 --> 01:09:14.130

John Warnick: You know I do. I'm very selective and who I work with, I try to make sure that I'm keeping my professional time and energy focused on purposeful projects, but I do



01:09:14.760 --> 01:09:25.650

John Warnick: Work with clients all over the country and that generally means I'm collaborating with great lawyers all over the country and other advisors all over the country so



01:09:26.160 --> 01:09:38.970

John Warnick: I'd be happy to talk to anybody. You can also email me at john a at purposeful planning or just Google purposeful planning Institute.



01:09:39.420 --> 01:09:50.460

John Warnick: And you'll, you'll be able to see PPI the, the, the community that I founded and you can see a contact us there that you can leave a message for me as well.



01:09:51.480 --> 01:09:52.080

John Warnick: Thank you, sir.



01:09:52.950 --> 01:09:53.340




01:09:55.080 --> 01:10:12.690

Raymond Odom: I would give my email. It's relatively simple are all are for Ray old for Odom seven. I guess I was the seven are oh at Northern Trust Our oh seven at n te R



01:10:13.020 --> 01:10:23.040

Raymond Odom: And as a Nancy T as in Tom ours and Roger S as in SAM and TRS as Northern Trust NASDAQ symbol and that will come right to me.



01:10:24.240 --> 01:10:36.960

Raymond Odom: There so I don't have any palm giving my phone number out. It's a 630-656-2476 that's my business and actually a little bit of my personal number so they'll come



01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:38.520

John Warnick: Right. To me, the



01:10:38.700 --> 01:10:54.510

Raymond Odom: biggest advantage of that I can offer to people that I talked to, is I'll be very quick to wherever you are, whatever your situation to try to connect you with people like Johnny and Michael who are able to



01:10:55.050 --> 01:10:57.030

Raymond Odom: Come aboard and be a part of a collaborative



01:10:57.030 --> 01:11:09.570

Raymond Odom: Team to get clients into that gold standard. And that's why I really will try to be helpful in that regard and often Michael I get calls the people who simply want to say



01:11:10.110 --> 01:11:20.520

Raymond Odom: Where do I start. What's the first thing I do. And sometimes I hate to say this. I know john is soon as to if you start poorly.



01:11:20.700 --> 01:11:21.960

Raymond Odom: It's hard to recover.



01:11:21.990 --> 01:11:23.100

Raymond Odom: Even if you bring the right



01:11:23.100 --> 01:11:23.670

Raymond Odom: People in



01:11:24.750 --> 01:11:25.290

Raymond Odom: So,



01:11:25.500 --> 01:11:28.380

Raymond Odom: Getting the context and setting up



01:11:28.440 --> 01:11:42.030

Raymond Odom: This whole idea is so critical. And you've got to have the right store and Michael frankly I think that's why the book, you know, infinite game so good. He starts off by talking about the Vietnam War Tet Offensive where the Vietcong. You know,



01:11:42.930 --> 01:11:50.880

Raymond Odom: You know, one every we're supposed to win every battle one of losing every battle. Well, how do we lose the war if we, you know, 3 million of them. And of course,



01:11:51.210 --> 01:11:57.600

Raymond Odom: He sets the whole book up by saying that because now you're listening. I think it's the same thing and our friends, we have to have stories.



01:11:57.990 --> 01:12:01.110

Raymond Odom: That dramatically show what we're trying to accomplish.



01:12:01.200 --> 01:12:03.690

Raymond Odom: And what the negatives are if you don't attempt to do it.



01:12:05.520 --> 01:12:10.830

Michael Palumbos: Having you both was wonderful. I really appreciate your time and sharing



01:12:11.070 --> 01:12:16.650

Michael Palumbos: All that you did today. Thank you everyone for joining us again. I'm Michael Columbus from



01:12:16.650 --> 01:12:30.510

Michael Palumbos: Family wealth and legacy in Rochester, New York. And if there's any way that we can help you in your journey and helping you to become more purposeful helping you to grow your business to work with your family, whatever.



01:12:30.570 --> 01:12:31.830

Michael Palumbos: We can do to help you.



01:12:32.040 --> 01:12:33.420

Michael Palumbos: Feel free to reach out to us.



01:12:33.480 --> 01:12:39.570

Michael Palumbos: On our website family wealth and legacy com Have an awesome day, everybody. Thank you so much.



01:12:40.260 --> 01:12:42.900

John Warnick: Thank you, Michael. Thank you. Right. Thanks.



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Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances.