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Episode 69: How to Attract, Hire & Retain Top Talent for the Family Business

In this episode of the Family Business Show, hosted by Michael Palumbos from Family Wealth and Legacy in Rochester, New York, the focus is on a critical issue facing many family businesses today: attracting and retaining top talent. The guest, Heenle Turner from the All-In Company, shares her insights and experiences in the HR field, emphasizing the importance of alignment in core values, the journey to finding one's role in HR, and strategies for hiring and retaining five-star employees.

Heenle's journey began unexpectedly in the political arena before moving to law school and eventually finding her passion in human resources. Her experience spans various roles, including a significant stint at Paychex in Rochester, providing her with a comprehensive view of the HR landscape in different organizational settings.

A significant part of the discussion revolves around the process of identifying and nurturing five-star employees. Heenle stresses the importance of core values in the recruitment process, suggesting that job postings should reflect the company's core values to attract compatible candidates. She advocates for an objective and detailed recruitment process, ensuring candidates' skills are thoroughly assessed to find the best fit for the company.

Retention strategies are also a focal point, with Heenle emphasizing the creation of a workplace where employees feel valued and connected. This includes the idea of providing a remarkable onboarding experience and maintaining a culture where high-performing employees want to stay.

Michael and Heenle also delve into the implications of the current labor market dynamics, influenced by recent global events like the pandemic, which have reshaped employee expectations and workplace norms. They discuss the importance of adaptability in businesses and the necessity to evolve with the changing labor market to attract and retain top talent.

Overall, the episode provides valuable insights into the challenges and strategies related to hiring and retaining exceptional employees in the family business context, emphasizing the significance of core values, a thorough recruitment process, and a supportive workplace culture.

Episode 69 Transcript


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Michael Palumbos: Well, welcome everybody to the family business show I am your host Michael alumnus with family wealth and legacy in Rochester New York.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And we have an extraordinary show for you, today we are blessed to have handle Turner with us today.

 

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Michael Palumbos: With the all in company and we're going to be talking about everybody's hot button right now.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Attracting and how your ring and putting those pieces together this market has been crazy all of the CEOs and family business businesses that I speak to this is what's on their mind right now so really excited to have you welcome he you know really appreciate you being here.

 

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Heenle Turner: Well, thank you so much for having me i'm excited to be here and and talk to you know your your audience and your your business owners and especially those who own who had the business come in the family, I get it i've worked for I worked for you or you're very similar organization.

 

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Michael Palumbos: um why don't you, you know we always say tell us about your journey we that'll give us a little background to you know where did you where did you start where to kick off and how did you end up doing what you're doing right now.

 

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Heenle Turner: yeah you know it's so funny that you asked that because.

 

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Heenle Turner: Because I I never I don't know if you've ever met an HR person who who intended to go into to HR who was like Oh, I have to be you know recruiting and hiring and and that was definitely not my my starting point, so you know I actually started off working.

 

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Heenle Turner: For.

 

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Heenle Turner: A political like in the political arena, so I worked for a state Senator I was just really interested in.

 

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Heenle Turner: in helping kind of the public and like I really believed in the state Senator that I worked with and then from there, I went finished college and went to to law school and and then from there, I said, you know what I.

 

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Heenle Turner: i've got to change it up, I think I need more human to human interaction so in the loft in La you know you work very closely with the codes and the and you know matching your facts and you're just like Okay, I need more human interaction like I can't wait right briefs all day and so.

 

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Heenle Turner: So, then, I said Okay, let me, let me see what I could do so, I took a bunch of.

 

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Heenle Turner: Introduction classes and I did, and one of them happened to be introduction to human resources and that's where is it, this is it, and so I started as an intern and then.

 

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Heenle Turner: got into.

 

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Heenle Turner: An in house HR role and that's where I worked for a business, who had about like.

 

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Heenle Turner: 60 or 70 employees and then we had the recession and then the recession brought us back down, and that was a really cool dynamic.

 

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Heenle Turner: Because there was the business owner and she had a.

 

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Heenle Turner: background in accounting so she was like very well, she was familiar with that accounting function and, of course, like most business owners into the numbers into what what bottom line was, but she also had this like extended.

 

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Heenle Turner: understanding of things and then from there, I worked.

 

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Heenle Turner: At paychecks so right there in Rochester I worked out of the Office here of course i'm in California, but i've been to Rochester number of times and I love it and coulson's good stuff and then.

 

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Heenle Turner: I paychecks was really cool because what I did was I consulted with small businesses.

 

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Heenle Turner: So businesses who wanted to outsource their HR function I we help them with that, so it was just a product that you could you could add on, and so I worked with over 200 business small businesses to help them with their HR needs.

 

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Heenle Turner: And then from there.

 

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Heenle Turner: One of the.

 

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Heenle Turner: I partnered with.

 

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Heenle Turner: With one of the business owners and here we are at the all in company focusing on recruiting and hiring and retaining employees.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Okay um talk about if you would what is, you know what is the all in company and what do you guys, you know what are the services that you provide at this point.

 

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Heenle Turner: Sure yeah I mean we we help business business owners with recruiting hiring and retaining five star employees, so we have a flagship program for business owners who want to.

 

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Heenle Turner: To really learn more about it and and get a process and get an objective process in place to help them hire sort of the elite of the elite, the five star employees.

 

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Michael Palumbos: One of the things I always tell the business owners, that I worked with is that, regardless of the position, there is always somebody, that is, as you call it a five star or I call it an a player.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And a player in the pay range and you know, in the job if you have a really good hiring process, but you really need to get that tuned up, would you.

 

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Heenle Turner: Absolutely yeah so like I we love.

 

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Heenle Turner: We definitely understand and roll with a player's the top grading philosophy and like.

 

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Heenle Turner: it's it's true, like you, the talent is out there, and you can always find the person that you need in that pay range that you need I mean think of it right like.

 

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Heenle Turner: If i'm going to go and get a cup of coffee is, as I just get you know cup of coffee cup of coffee, maybe I drink a block, but maybe cream and sugar.

 

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Heenle Turner: that's going to run you a couple dollars rather whether i'm at starbucks mcdonald's or 711 if the range is like a 10% differential it's the same idea with your employees you're going to find that person in the range you just really got to go get it, you know drive the extra mile.

 

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Michael Palumbos: So when we look at the market, right now, this is such a hot topic for everybody.

 

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Michael Palumbos: You know, we went through coven and I think that changed a lot, do you have any thoughts or insights that you want to share in terms of just like How did we get here today what's going on, that this Labor market is so.

 

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Michael Palumbos: I guess challenging might be the right word it's competitive, it is a lot of people it's hard to find employees.

 

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Michael Palumbos: At one level or another, so you want to talk about that a little bit.

 

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Heenle Turner: Sure yeah I mean I think in into like right now in today, like the market is.

 

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Heenle Turner: is different than any of us have have really faced before, not to say the economy in general and and the market itself have have not faced a challenge, like a pandemic before.

 

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Heenle Turner: But the people in it right now that the workforce, like the digit disease, the generation to all the boomers and generation X, Y Z whatever it is now there it's their first experience right so.

 

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Heenle Turner: And so that's kind of created this ripple effect where you know people, so people who were in a current job you know, like myself, right.

 

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Heenle Turner: I got maybe I got used to to working from home because everybody, you know everyone kind of said Okay, we we can't work from the office anymore like let's let's take a break and let's go home.

 

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Heenle Turner: and businesses and employees, they made it work right, and so they started having so much more of a.

 

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Heenle Turner: blended life and they started realizing the flexibility was so important to to the individual to the employee.

 

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Heenle Turner: And now, so many businesses have made that flexibility of priority where it's also become a high value and a higher retention strategy for business owners, so if you can.

 

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Heenle Turner: If you can remain flexible and and that doesn't just mean work from home, but it means in your hours and you're scheduling you know that is a.

 

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Heenle Turner: hot topic and a boy I think the number was like 44% of people I was just looking at some surveys said that that it would remain with their employer, because of the flexibility that they offer um so that's a little different so before I feel like.

 

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Heenle Turner: The employer right the one who's paying me set the rules and set the standards.

 

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Heenle Turner: and set the expectations, but now there.

 

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Heenle Turner: Is seems to be a slight change, where I think even the employee, the one who's like being recruited.

 

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Heenle Turner: Has has a little bit of weight like more than more than ever before, and I think business owners are are struggling with that because they've always these always set the table right.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Some of the data that I was looking at, because this was you know everybody's talking about it and we serve.

 

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Michael Palumbos: A number of business owners, so I you know, has spent some time looking at looking at it, but I think there's a vacuum effect, I think you know that some of the upper management or sea level or just you know.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Inside of a lot of these companies when march of 2020 hit you know they tried it for 346 months and just said i've saved enough i'm ready for retirement I didn't plan on retiring, but I do not want to do what we're doing anymore.

 

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Heenle Turner: mm hmm.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And so they I think there's a lot more retirees that opted out, even though they would have worked for another five years had things not changed.

 

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Heenle Turner: Oh yeah absolutely.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And so that caused a vacuum effect where it's like okay now let's get who's going to take that person's place.

 

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Michael Palumbos: and add that to what you just said, and I think that's just a recipe for exactly why we're we're at where we're at today.

 

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Heenle Turner: Right and then and the people themselves so like the organizations who.

 

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Heenle Turner: You know who had a lot of time, especially in small businesses, you find that the people who are just the superstars and their department they're they're, the ones who.

 

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Heenle Turner: Who people think is okay well look they're wrong but they're naturally inclined to say Okay, let me promote this person to the manager.

 

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Heenle Turner: And because they're doing such a good job.

 

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and

 

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Heenle Turner: But then they failed to you know train the person on how to manage other people manage other humans.

 

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Heenle Turner: And then you take, and that usually be kind of can get away with it when you're you know in person and with other people around to to talk ideas through and such.

 

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Heenle Turner: But managing people remotely for the first time, it is difficult, especially if you've had no official training right so it's a very people, so the employees, they probably were like i'm not gonna I don't want to be yelled at in my own home like.

 

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Heenle Turner: Right.

 

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Michael Palumbos: right that makes it makes a big difference.

 

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Michael Palumbos: So you started the company in last year.

 

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Heenle Turner: yeah i'm sorry, so I didn't start the company, but yeah with the company started.

 

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Heenle Turner: Last year, yes.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Okay um what want let's let's just jump right into talking about recruiting because I think right now that's what's the biggest thing on everybody's mind, but I love the fact that you know we can talk about recruiting talk with the hiring process and then.

 

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Michael Palumbos: to your point, what do we need to do to retain these people once we have them in the House, we don't want to be losing people, especially after that five star employee.

 

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Michael Palumbos: mom so when you talk about the recruiting process, what are some of the keys that an employee, you know, an employer a CEO business owner should be thinking about when they're going through that recruiting process today.

 

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Heenle Turner: You know the first one of the things that you have to do as the business owner is is really differentiate yourself and.

 

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Heenle Turner: And you need to get really specific about what you're looking for and that goes from you know you everything in your job postings like down to the interview questions that you're asking so, for instance.

 

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Heenle Turner: One of the one of the biggest you know things I see missing from the recruitment process or the recruitment strategy today.

 

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Heenle Turner: Is you know if I pull up a job posting on linkedin I don't see the core values, and so, when I think of you know core obviously core values are core right, so you think about as a business owner.

 

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Heenle Turner: And this works, especially well, for you know family businesses, because you have to think about how did I, like my husband when when my husband and I first met.

 

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Heenle Turner: We learn more about each other, you know, every day, and something still surprised me, but one thing that doesn't surprise me was.

 

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Heenle Turner: That we wanted to raise our children, the same way, so we're you know advocates for education we're academics, we were very respectful we care so much about the family, like you know he considered.

 

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Heenle Turner: Okay let's find a place with a with a full full bedroom and bath on the first floor because you know when parents move in and.

 

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Heenle Turner: In all this stuff right and that kind of like value isn't instill that him from his parents and his family, and those are the kind of people who, I want to spend all of my life with and.

 

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Heenle Turner: I also want to Community at work so wouldn't it make sense that the people in my work, for in my workforce share the same core values as me so, for example, you know.

 

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Heenle Turner: it's so important to me for it's a as a business owner to to pay attention to detail right.

 

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Heenle Turner: And so, that means we double check triple check everything that the material we goes out is like an accelerated level where we don't just quickly rush through something and send it out, we really pay attention to detail.

 

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Heenle Turner: And so, that means every single person in my organization, the of the value needs to align their they also need to be that, because if if they don't aren't they going to piss you off.

 

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Michael Palumbos: you're singing my song I love what you just said let's unpack that a little bit so people really can dive into this so number one.

 

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Michael Palumbos: I would say, take it even up one notch make sure you're doing the work around your core values within the company what you said i've never heard package that way before talked about that way I love it.

 

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Michael Palumbos: You have a set of personal core values.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And when you were looking for a spouse, you know you need to make sure that those core values are lined up I bet you that you and your husband has some values that are different from one another.

 

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Michael Palumbos: As well as everything else but the core values needed to be aligned, otherwise you would never have stayed together you never would have you never would have gotten married in the first place.

 

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Michael Palumbos: If it.

 

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Michael Palumbos: wasn't there.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Okay, so for a company unpacking their core values it's not just the values that you write down the business plan that says.

 

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Heenle Turner: here's will.

 

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Michael Palumbos: aspire to be what.

 

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Heenle Turner: Not aspirational values that's correct.

 

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Heenle Turner: Its core values and that's what this the confusion is I mean you can have like you should have aspirational values.

 

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Heenle Turner: But the people need to need to have you in your core values, need to be aligned, so you need to think about as a business owner what's important for you 100% of the time, is it creativity is it something.

 

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Heenle Turner: Like, of course, is it like honesty is it attention to detail is it.

 

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Heenle Turner: What is it right and so like we of course can.

 

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Heenle Turner: Like any of your listeners like they can send me an email and i'll run this exercise with them no problem, but it's, the idea is like first understanding what your own core values are.

 

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Heenle Turner: And then and talking about it all the time, not only to your employees, but to your like in your recruitment strategy, because if it's so important for for to you.

 

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Heenle Turner: Then it should be front and Center in your recruiting process, because you want to attract the people who share those same core values and if they're not excited about paying attention to detail giving excellent customer service, you know.

 

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Heenle Turner: Then, then they're not the people the right fit for your organization in the first place yeah.

 

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Michael Palumbos: One of the things I love that I can't remember who I, who I got it from but basically it's, what are the core values that are alive.

 

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Michael Palumbos: and well in your business today right so it's like you want to make sure that when you walk in there here's what we said, our core values are.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And they align and you can feel them, you should be able to walk in there and not say anything.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And you're I could walk in there, and after a day or a week of just watching everybody, we can see what the core values are we can feel the core values based on the interaction that we see between people right.

 

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Heenle Turner: mm hmm.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And then the other The other thing I think that's important is that you really mean it it's not just you say it, but like if somebody goes against the core values, one time they get a warning a second time it's you know, this is it third time you're fired.

 

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Michael Palumbos: you're somebody for the core values you'll never create that culture around those things you just you just end up getting stew.

 

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Michael Palumbos: You get my gosh.

 

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Heenle Turner: yeah I mean and Plus, like you, you know everything that you, you do in your organization is is going to be tied to.

 

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Heenle Turner: To those core values in some way or another, so so if somebody is is you know being combative or somebody rolling their eyes when they receive feedback if they're just like oh.

 

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Heenle Turner: Okay yeah I can do that okay well you know what let's let's step back a little bit tell me tell me how you're being an excellent employer.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Right right if team players, important to you that you better align those things, and then, if you're putting that in your in your recruiting strategy effects in the Ad.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Those when somebody sees those core values that align with their core values they are going to want to work inside your company.

 

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Heenle Turner: Right and if you if you just go and do if you just look at you know five indeed ads right now for job postings I don't think how many of them are going to have the core values.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And zero.

 

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Heenle Turner: Probably zero and.

 

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Heenle Turner: yeah I mean, for we you know five star employees, they only represent the top 15% of the of the workforce at the given rate.

 

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Heenle Turner: And that's that's okay like we don't want you to subtle like we want, we want lifers right, I mean, especially in in I mean.

 

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Heenle Turner: there's we're not I didn't I left a big corporate company right, I want to work for a smaller family business because I feel like there's much more like connectivity there, so I can connect I can build a family right, I can build my own little work, family and I love it yeah.

 

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Michael Palumbos: I love that piece and core values, I do think are so important, the other piece, you know what are some of the other things when i'm recruiting, what are the things that you know as an owner i've got to start thinking about that I might not have thought about already.

 

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Heenle Turner: yeah you know one thing I I would think through is is just a very practical practical solution, I have is.

 

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Heenle Turner: is how are you truly evaluating the skill set of the person that you're hiring right So if you asked me right, how many words can you type A minute not 200 Is that true who knows, but you don't know I don't know because you didn't test me.

 

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Heenle Turner: Right and so now there's so many things that you can do.

 

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Heenle Turner: When you're looking inside and so you again, you have to look inside and be very specific about what you're looking for, so if i'm if i'm hiring for like we have a client recently and she was.

 

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Heenle Turner: hiring for a creative position and the position was digital marketing organization and the role was OK let's look at this piece of content and write copy for it and.

 

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Heenle Turner: kind of create a a campaign on social media for this, so what was the skills test that we kind of naturally came up with was.

 

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Heenle Turner: You know, send us some samples and then we're going to send you this, to look at and review and you're going to actually.

 

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Heenle Turner: do some of the work that you would be doing in the role and then i'm going to receive it back as a business owner.

 

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Heenle Turner: And because let's face it it's you who's doing it right now so let's let's take a look at it and i'm going to evaluate it objectively and now i've got i've started this objective.

 

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Heenle Turner: process to review the candidate because it's because there's you can train, but you do need to to have somebody come to the organization with the skill set if that's what you're looking for yeah.

 

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Michael Palumbos: So i'll share this with you, because what you're talking about just makes me chuckle because of the Miss we all learn from our mistakes i'm a you mentioned top grading before i'm a huge top grading fan that's why.

 

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Michael Palumbos: We can have these conversations at.

 

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Michael Palumbos: This level but, and so, if you haven't grabbed the book top grading.

 

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Michael Palumbos: i've talked about it on many shows, I really highly recommend it check out their website sign up for grab as much stuff as you want I think it's there's some great stuff there and it sounds like henley.

 

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Michael Palumbos: He know Oh, I did it, it sounds like you know you guys help clients to move through this process as well right.

 

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Heenle Turner: Right and totally you know customized because that that really is the differentiator like we don't want you to Google interview Google interview questions we don't want you to prepare for an interview.

 

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Heenle Turner: Two minutes before as they're walking through the door like that's how you, you ask a silly question that doesn't get you any information.

 

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Heenle Turner: And we definitely don't want you to spend time interviewing people who aren't even qualified to begin with, so we really encourage.

 

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Heenle Turner: You know pre screenings and like preliminary assessments and you know filtering out people who are just not qualified because don't waste your time it's who has time.

 

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Michael Palumbos: One of the things that I found you know talk that we talked about indeed.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Indeed, has some pre screening things that you can utilize to test some basic skills, nothing fancy but it's you know i'm always shocked at when I when we put ads out and utilized.

 

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Michael Palumbos: That screening process, how many people are just blanketing their resume to 40 different people and they're really don't have any thought in what they're what they're doing.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And so that just helps us to weed out the people that really aren't totally serious and we only start dealing with the ones that do that indeed process first.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And and have.

 

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Heenle Turner: fun oh it absolutely helps I mean in this someone is you know we have people who.

 

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Heenle Turner: Some some crime that were working for, and they really need their employees to follow instructions like that's one of their biggest by pain points and the biggest time obviously errors happen and that of course costs money and so.

 

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Heenle Turner: What we said was like hey listen let's, this is what she did is in the job posting.

 

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Heenle Turner: At the at the bottom of the job posting it says interested candidates, please email, you know here's the email address and the subject line should be like something very was very specific and so when they filtered through their emails.

 

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Heenle Turner: To look at applicants.

 

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Heenle Turner: They only looked at the candidates who did the correct.

 

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Heenle Turner: Subject title subject line.

 

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Michael Palumbos: If you couldn't read the instructions, you know, then, why would I start wasting my time.

 

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Heenle Turner: There yeah.

 

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Michael Palumbos: You talked about job skills assessments and so in our hiring process for my firm we you know have utilized a really strict process and in the last two years.

 

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Michael Palumbos: I hired somebody without using my process and it cost me an awful lot of money.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Gone a personal relationship, I did it based on you know just I knew, you know I knew he was a good guy and it would I knew his career from following it from you know from outside, but I never went through and did the skills assessment, I never did you know the the.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Come on the pre test work.

 

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Heenle Turner: freescale The pre pre tests and stuff.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And the assessments and and I didn't have the team sit down with them, you know we didn't all interview on and when the person came in.

 

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Michael Palumbos: The computer skills were so unbelievably horrific, and it was just simple copy paste file.

 

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Michael Palumbos: You know, things that you would think that anybody could do, but so now, yes, ask that person to jump into you know hey can you go into the our CRM and make sure you're taking notes on ABC client they don't even know how to access it and so it's like I kicked myself.

 

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Michael Palumbos: out I didn't follow it, and the amount of money that cost and the.

 

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Michael Palumbos: More importantly, is the you know I got egg on my face with my team and I had to go back to the team and apologize and say i'm sorry it will never happen again, they said, and they said, like you're not allowed to hire the anybody, without going through the full process.

 

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Heenle Turner: How did.

 

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Heenle Turner: How long did it take you to transition this person out of your organization.

 

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Michael Palumbos: 18 months.

 

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Heenle Turner: Okay, so funny it's.

 

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Heenle Turner: Oh, I knew it, you know why because because.

 

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Heenle Turner: Like business what I found is like business owners so you're not definitely you're not alone I don't think that makes you feel better but.

 

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Heenle Turner: What what we'll do is you'll find somebody somebody will be a referral they'd be like the.

 

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Heenle Turner: Relative of someone who are someone else who works in your organization, who needs a summer job right whatever it is.

 

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Heenle Turner: And so you skip a couple steps and you said yeah come on come on hi i'm not hire you and that decision is like instantaneous right you didn't even didn't even bat an eyelash and so.

 

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Heenle Turner: But then, on the other end right as soon as you realize that this person's not working there's like a hesitation to pull that that trigger right to transition, the person off and.

 

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Heenle Turner: that's very like a fascinating to me because, on one end the decision was quick, but on the other, it's not and it's very and I understand, of course, coming from an HR background there's a little bit risk associated on one end but but shoot like that is unfortunate.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And going I share that because you know, once you build out this process, it is slow to hire fast to fire.

 

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Michael Palumbos: and avoid personal relationships, as often as you can or, if you have a personal relationship to take yourself out of the hiring process.

 

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Heenle Turner: Right right like have have somebody else involved there and your process should still.

 

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Heenle Turner: should still let itself work work through the process and what's interesting is in this like recruitment world like we both I think talked about indeed.

 

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Heenle Turner: But you know if you're if you're really looking to to find your five your own five star employees, you cannot just post one add on indeed you know you need to post multiple jobs, you need to post them.

 

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Heenle Turner: different locations, you need to think about implementing a referral program so that your your awesome five star employees can refer you know, like minded employees.

 

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Heenle Turner: You need to think about well hey how do I market my company and market myself a little bit, can I be a guest speaker at a school can I go into the Community, you know library, the Community Center and and get some more advocates there right.

 

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Heenle Turner: And so there's different things that you, you, you want to try, I mean even today i've seen like you've seen like these help wanted signs everywhere right.

 

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Heenle Turner: But I mean that doesn't mean you can't do one just be creative and and and see what else you can do, because you never know who's who's looking right.

 

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Michael Palumbos: I love it anything else you know so we've talked about aligning core values we talked about you know doing your pre work.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Skills assessments and just you know other assessments.

 

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Michael Palumbos: That you might utilize you know, and I know through the hiring process, you have to follow you know all the Department of Labor rules make sure that you're doing those things, and that you follow the same process for everybody.

 

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Michael Palumbos: um is there any other things that on the recruiting side before they're hired that you're saying here's some ways I do I, you know.

 

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Michael Palumbos: I guess there's a question how do I know that everything that this person is telling me besides doing a skills assessment assessment or any other ways that you can check to say this person is telling you, you know, giving you the full picture of who they are.

 

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Heenle Turner: yeah I mean, I think your you know your your your process itself will be filtering out a lot of the candidates who who don't work there and then and then, when you're you know when you're in the interview.

 

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Heenle Turner: asked a question that's important to you and be comfortable with the silence, so if somebody doesn't respond right away.

 

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Heenle Turner: don't try to lead them into the right direction don't try to answer for them be comfortable with the silence and let them answer the question and, if they don't answer the question they probably don't know what to say and you probably are indicating that maybe it's not a good fit.

 

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Michael Palumbos: yeah we I call it i'm trying to think.

 

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Heenle Turner: allows somebody time to think.

 

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Michael Palumbos: and be comfortable with that you'd like you said, the silence I love, giving them time to think and see what they come back with.

 

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Michael Palumbos: I would also throw in and tell me, you know I think you like, you said you need to have your questions.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And the recruiting done, you know properly So what are some of the questions that would help to filter out whether they really our core values that.

 

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Michael Palumbos: So if teamwork is you know, a core value of your company, you know what are some teamwork questions, you know that we can say hey.

 

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Michael Palumbos: In previous you know employers tell me when a time when teamwork, you know didn't work out and how did you handle it, what did you, you know what is your take about it or.

 

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Michael Palumbos: You know those kinds of questions right and be prepared it's not always just about their skill set and what do they bring to the table, but it's really important that they fit with the team.

 

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Heenle Turner: yeah you know I for teamwork specifically I love that that example I would want to know, like one, it would be as a as a as a business owner, you have to ask yourself okay well what is teamwork mean to me right so understand what that means what that word means to you.

 

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Heenle Turner: And I would be asking the candidate.

 

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Heenle Turner: You know, tell me about a time you were on a team and ask that person to you know describe their leader describe.

 

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Heenle Turner: How a problem was resolved, maybe ask them to give you an example of when.

 

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Heenle Turner: There was a conflict, how did that you were part of, or maybe one that you weren't part of that you observed and and you know just got to get them talking about it, and the more you can have.

 

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Heenle Turner: That person, you know talk about their answer or talk about what the teamwork means and and how how you can kind of gauge their authenticity and then based on their response.

 

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Heenle Turner: you'll rate that response right so from a one to 10.

 

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Heenle Turner: Was it was it what you were looking for, or was it not, and then you write that down and then you move on to the next, the next aptitude or the next value.

 

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Michael Palumbos: love it yeah so that's a really good point so you're you're interviewing for aptitude in that position in core values that so you making sure that you're weaving both of those in there.

 

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Heenle Turner: Right yeah until like what we do for our what we do for our clients, as we work with them and we build out an end every interview packet for each role right, so that when it comes to hiring again you're not scrambling you just grab that interview packet and you go.

 

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Michael Palumbos: yeah that's a really interesting point I know tons of companies that have not done job descriptions or a scorecard or how they're going to.

 

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Michael Palumbos: You know measure and keep people accountable for their position if you don't have those in place How can anybody know whether they're doing a good job or not right.

 

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Heenle Turner: Right yeah I mean, and you, you have to you have to get you know comfortable with, and it can get comfortable with understanding, where your current team is as well, so.

 

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Heenle Turner: When you are, you know starting to put some of this stuff together, you may you know, especially for like these small businesses.

 

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Heenle Turner: You may have somebody who has been with you, from the beginning, but their skill set and may have not evolved to the level that you need it to so you just have to be uncomfortable to be comfortable.

 

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Heenle Turner: Trying to understand what your team already brings and then.

 

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Heenle Turner: working through what needs to be done so does somebody have the skill set to move forward, or is it time to transition them to a different role or or maybe even out of the organization.

 

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Heenle Turner: But you, you need to understand one what what you need from all of your employees, you know assessing your your the health of your business assessing your profit levels assessing.

 

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Heenle Turner: What you're what you need and then from there you'll be able to to find what you're looking for.

 

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Michael Palumbos: appreciate that it sounds like you have you know the all in company has defined a process for how you're working with business owners Would you mind just maybe.

 

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Michael Palumbos: walking through the steps if you, you know if I was a new client of yours and said i'm looking to hire salespeople What would the process be like that you would take a you know, a new client through.

 

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Heenle Turner: yeah so First, we have the way that our program works is it's our flagship program is a recruiting and recruiting hiring and then retaining, and so we work with.

 

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Heenle Turner: We in this program we work with each business owner and we build this like arsenal of assets and so each asset is a is a different component of the that falls into either recruitment hiring our retention so for like.

 

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Heenle Turner: For recruitment recruitment, for example.

 

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Heenle Turner: We would start usually with the job posting so we would work with.

 

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Heenle Turner: Work with the business owner to build out their job posting so we want to have captivating you know job post title we want to have one image of the core values are there and we want to make sure that.

 

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Heenle Turner: Things are included, like the salary range, the location, the part time like just some of the basic stuff that.

 

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Heenle Turner: That you know, maybe you include maybe you don't.

 

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Heenle Turner: And we work with them to uh to outline you know let's let's capture the three to five key responsibilities as well as the success metrics so not only sharing in the job posting.

 

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Heenle Turner: What you're the responsibility is, but what does success look like in that role so again and and when you start getting this detailed.

 

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Heenle Turner: In the job posting people five star employees will see that and love the challenge and they're like oh yeah I can do this, people who are.

 

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Heenle Turner: Are kind of average or 123 star employees be player CD player's be players, they are you know they might just be turned off by at this level of detail so maybe they're not a fit anyway.

 

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Heenle Turner: And so job posting is usually the first place, we start when we're talking in recruiting when we're talking about hiring the first place.

 

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Heenle Turner: We like to start as crew, we want to create this amazing wow onboarding process right, so we tend to so we want it, we work with them to build out, you know their first day of employment we build out the.

 

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Heenle Turner: The employee welcome kit so So those are things that we work with our clients on for each role, you know in their organization and then, when we move into retention we really talk about.

 

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Heenle Turner: You know what an organization needs to to retain five star employees and that's all about you know, giving the psychological ownership that's to each employee that's really about providing recognition and building that community, and so we have.

 

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Heenle Turner: You know, different different ideas and different ways to do that, and a lot of.

 

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Heenle Turner: there's a lot of collaboration with us and, as well as with other like minded you know entrepreneurs who, who are all on the same page and.

 

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Heenle Turner: And we love it because you know, we believe that all of us are smarter than one of us and and we love working together and hearing each other's ideas of what's working and it's great.

 

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Michael Palumbos: it's nice i'm talk about.

 

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Michael Palumbos: um.

 

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Michael Palumbos: let's talk about some more about about retention.

 

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Michael Palumbos: you're going to work super hard right now, especially to get people into your organization once you have a five star, you know employee once you have an a player on your team.

 

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Michael Palumbos: What are some of the things that turn let's let's phrase it like this, what are some of the things that turn a players off or five star put the five star employees away from you know your organization where did they get disenchanted.

 

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Heenle Turner: You know, one of the biggest things is Fuck the you know, and you know this firsthand is your five star employees, want to work with other five star employees, so you really want to work on protecting that culture that you have.

 

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Heenle Turner: And that means you know being that gatekeeper and one trend, you know make making an effort, not to keep to keep those subpar employees those average people out of.

 

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Heenle Turner: Your organization so because five star employees like to work with other five star employees and and they want people who who want to be accountable, who like to communicate who receive feedback well.

 

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Heenle Turner: And those who are who don't do that it's very frustrating to work with that person so five star employees will leave and go find another organization.

 

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Heenle Turner: To work with and and you want to make you know, make sure your employees are engaged and one thing.

 

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Heenle Turner: One thing you do is is rollout and engagement survey, so you can send out an engagement survey to your team and it's all about asking the right question, and so one of you know, one I was doing some research about.

 

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Heenle Turner: About engagement survey question and one of the ones I just came across was do you have a best friend at work and I thought that was such a clever question so.

 

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Heenle Turner: And the results of course yielded that those who had a best friend network were more likely to stay with that organization, because it it captured the sense of community and it captured the level of comfort.

 

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Heenle Turner: that people want in from their organizations and you got to think about this right your the time that you're at work as a time that you are typically most people are away from their family so they're just looking for another Community.

 

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Heenle Turner: Right isn't that what everybody wants like you have a Community with your family, you have a community.

 

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Heenle Turner: Maybe at your your yoga class, but I mean where's your Community at work right.

 

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Michael Palumbos: yeah hundred percent I am thinking of.

 

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Michael Palumbos: The a lot of people are familiar with NPs.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Net promoter score.

 

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Michael Palumbos: yeah I think you can do that with employees as the you know the the.

 

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Heenle Turner: What do you recommend, would you recommend an employee working your friend to work here yep.

 

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Michael Palumbos: yep and and if you know what that number looks like, then you can start to say okay we've got some work to do, or we're in the right neighborhood what do we do to make sure that we keep this.

 

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Michael Palumbos: You know, employee, you know the NPs at the level it's you know that we're at that to me if you have an HR person that works within the company.

 

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Michael Palumbos: That NPs it's kind of their job to make sure the you know we keep those things going in the right direction and that will force them to make sure that there's bringing in other five star or a player employees right.

 

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Heenle Turner: mm hmm.

 

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Heenle Turner: yeah and if you if you.

 

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Heenle Turner: You know you do roll out and an engagement survey and you find less than favorable results, I mean it's something for you to work on right you evaluate what you have and.

 

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Heenle Turner: And you create come up with a plan to to make it to make it better, and I feel like even.

 

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Heenle Turner: By you know, asking the questions and then acting quickly on them, so you know, sharing the results with your team letting them know like this is kind of what we're working through this isn't a pipeline.

 

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Heenle Turner: And being open about that I think people appreciate that because they they see a path forward so I don't think anybody expects perfection all the time they just want.

 

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Heenle Turner: A you know, like every relationship there's ups and downs, so you know let's just let's just be transparent about it let's let's talk through it.

 

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Heenle Turner: Right people.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Go go go ahead.

 

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Heenle Turner: As I said, people just don't want to be in the dark.

 

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Michael Palumbos: helps to build trust transparency builds trust and when people trust you, they will go to bat for you 10 times more than if they don't.

 

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Michael Palumbos: yeah that's great um else.

 

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Michael Palumbos: What would I would have I asked you that I should ask you.

 

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Heenle Turner: You know I would say, one of them a common question I get to today is how do I, you know become that employer of choice, and so, and I think it's going to start by.

 

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Heenle Turner: A by having the right people I think it's all about the people, because the people is it is going to be what.

 

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Heenle Turner: attracts other great people to your organization, and I mean you want to create a onboarding experience that.

 

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Heenle Turner: you're that you know the person, the person your new hire runs home and tells their spouse about oh my God, I had such a great first day and so excited.

 

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Heenle Turner: And I such great people i'm so excited to be here and and that's the kind of buzz that you want to create and if you're if you're doing anything less than that you're you're risking this this new person leaving, as well as you know, other people yeah.

 

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Michael Palumbos: nope I think that's I think that's a great one it's that that buzz means an awful lot you know if you don't if you don't come away from your first day saying Oh, I had a great first day what's the future looking like.

 

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Heenle Turner: Right, I mean and it's it's so difficult you, you always have to keep your your your people engaged like I don't know if this has happened.

 

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Heenle Turner: To you, or any of the people that you work or work with but i've had so many clients tell me that they had a candidate and the person just not showing up for interviews not showing up for their first day and it's it's it's insane a little bit.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Right yeah.

 

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Michael Palumbos: We know what's happening, I think, for a lot of people is because they are struggling to find people, is there a they're allowing.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Maybe some people that a year ago, or four years ago they wouldn't have ever let in the door they're allowing them to come in, because they're just want a body to fill in you know, putting the seat.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And I think Jim Collins wrote the book good to great he talks about to find the right seats, what are the right seats that you need to be to have phil to run your company properly.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Then it's where the right people to go into those seats and then make sure that those right people you know those five star a players are doing the right tasks.

 

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Heenle Turner: Right right.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And, and if you can get really clear about that those things within the company and you have a great recruiting and hiring process, it will help you to retain you know all the right people over a long period of time.

 

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Michael Palumbos: yeah I have a client right now that comes to mind that.

 

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Michael Palumbos: I know that at the core, is this really great corporate culture, because there are people that have been there, you know, two generations or multiple family members, working in the same business, so they.

 

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Michael Palumbos: You know they there's there's that core is right there, but then because there's so many employees, today there are definitely some B or C players on the team and that causes all of the friction in the company it slows everything down where if they just said Okay, you know fire fast.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Get rid of that let's.

 

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Michael Palumbos: It because they're going to be more they're going to be happier someplace else that's the truth of the matter.

 

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Heenle Turner: Right, I mean it's The thing is, like if if you have when you have a five star employee, there are five star employee, for your organization and.

 

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Heenle Turner: If they're truly don't don't have the passion and don't have the drive and they don't love what they're doing.

 

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Heenle Turner: They are probably not happy themselves and what and that's okay right you just got to realize that it's not worth your bottom line it's not worth keeping your employees.

 

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Heenle Turner: unhappy and it's not worth risking your your five star employees, you know retreating and leaving leaving to go somewhere else you know you have to be comfortable with.

 

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Heenle Turner: That with recognizing that some people are maybe just not a fit anymore, and especially in businesses as they scale and as they grow some people just don't grow with that organization, so they had a skill set that was very, very.

 

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Heenle Turner: That is very helpful, but it needs to evolve and grow with the organization and if it doesn't then, then what are we going to do what's the what's the solution for that person so it's either.

 

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Heenle Turner: A different role it's or it's transitioning out because we don't have a role here, that really works for you and there's nothing.

 

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Heenle Turner: nothing wrong with that, in the sense that you don't have to make it make that experience when you transition somebody out of your organization you don't need to make it awful you don't need to you know you know be.

 

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Heenle Turner: not talk to them anymore, you can still give them and set them up for success right, you can create transition packets, you can work with them for you can provide job placement services, you can provide them.

 

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Heenle Turner: Like a review of their resume you can prepare them like what we do is you know here is.

 

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Heenle Turner: Everything here's a little summary of your job, so you can just take this and place it right there on your resume so you know you're ready to go, because those are something that was as a practical helpful thing that you can give someone who's.

 

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Heenle Turner: transitioning out, you know if you're are you.

 

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Heenle Turner: Are you what's your what's your decision on references like can you just provide a reference letter right like if that's something that you want, if you're comfortable doing so you can think through these different elements and and make this transition process better.

 

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Michael Palumbos: yeah I tell you I think that's a great point that we forget that the organization may have changed in that person that was great when you had 20 employees.

 

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Michael Palumbos: may not be so wonderful now that you've got 40 because of the where they sit in the team and the skill set that they have.

 

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Michael Palumbos: You know the person that helped you to get to where you are may not be able to help to get you where you're going and it's okay to reassess people.

 

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Michael Palumbos: And there may be another spot on your team to say hey you know what you grew up, you know as the manager of that division and when we were only doing X, Y and Z.

 

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Michael Palumbos: That was great, but now that we need these other skill sets are more important is that manager, would you be comfortable you know, supporting a new, you know the the new Vice President of whatever you know.

 

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Michael Palumbos: put him in that role, and some people will be able to make that change and say you know what that's an honest conversation and.

 

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Michael Palumbos: It was difficult to hear, but I know that there's a lot of truth and I would probably be happier if I was just doing the part that I wanted to do.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Originally, and i'm happy to support you know you and a new lawyer and make sure it's somebody that you know we can work with together and help grow the company.

 

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Heenle Turner: Right, I mean and consider like you know and consider part time work so maybe that's an avenue, that is if it works within for your business, of course, then you know, consider it for certain roles as well, it may be more efficient to.

 

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Michael Palumbos: I think this has been great I think we covered an awful lot of territory.

 

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Michael Palumbos: If people wanted to get in touch with you for help in you know they're recruiting you know hiring and retaining process looking for five star employees How do people get in touch with you how do they find you.

 

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Heenle Turner: yeah you know you can always send me an email so it's just he know at the on company COM and I will of course just add that to the show notes, and you can check out our website, if you want to learn more about five star employees and that's five star employees COM.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Five star in place calm I love it.

 

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Michael Palumbos: yeah, thank you for joining us today, this has been great my name is Michael Columbus you've been listening to the family business show i'm in Rochester New York with family wealth and legacy.

 

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Michael Palumbos: Thank you for joining us and we look forward to having you listen in on the next episode have a great day, everybody.

If you’re a family business or a family business consultant and want to be on the show, share your story and help other family businesses, send us an email to producer@thefamilybizshow.com or fill out a contact form here!

*not affiliated with Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp.

Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances.

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