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Episode 70: Navigating Wealth 3.0 & Creating An Impactful Life

In this episode of the Family Biz Show, host Michael Palumbos engages in a fascinating conversation with guest Kristen Keffeler about her new book, "The Myth of the Silver Spoon: Navigating Family Wealth and Creating an Impactful Life." The discussion delves into the unique challenges and opportunities faced by individuals growing up in families of wealth and prominence.

Kristen shares her personal journey, highlighting her transition from aspiring to enter the medical field to her deep involvement in family wealth dynamics due to her family's business success. She underscores the complexities of managing identity, relationships, and purpose when intertwined with family wealth, drawing from her experiences and those she has worked with in her professional career.

The episode also explores the evolution of wealth management, transitioning from Wealth 1.0, characterized by dynastic wealth and secrecy, to Wealth 3.0, which emphasizes transparency, inclusivity, and preparing heirs for their roles rather than merely protecting them from wealth. Kristen's insights offer a nuanced understanding of how wealth impacts individual and family dynamics and the importance of aligning values with financial decisions to create meaningful impact.

Kristen's book, "The Myth of the Silver Spoon," is positioned as a resource not only for the rising generation in affluent families but also for their parents and advisors. It aims to provide actionable insights for navigating the complexities of wealth, fostering a sense of purpose, and contributing positively to the world. The conversation encapsulates the book's core message, emphasizing the potential for wealth to be a tool for positive change when managed with intention and awareness of its broader implications on identity and relationships.

Episode 70 Transcript


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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Welcome everybody to the family biz show. I am your host, Michael Columbus, from family wealth and legacy in Rochester, New York, and we have a very cool show for you. I've been waiting to get Christian on, for since I started the show. Um! So i'm really excited to have Kristen Kepler here, and she's gonna we're gonna be talking about her new book. Um, The myth of the Silver Spoon navigating family wealth and creating an impactful life.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um. Those most of you won't know this. But, Kristen I met

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: over ten years ago at the very first purpose of planning Institute meeting at the airport in Denver, whatever that hotel was we at packed in there, and meeting some of mine that you know mentors and your mentors. And then, just you know this whole,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: this whole world of purposeful planning and thinking about creating impactful, meaningful lives for helping families that do that. That's where it was kind of birth for a lot of the professionals in our industry. So welcome, Kristen.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Thank you. Thank you, Michael. I'm super excited to be here, and it makes me giggle. Just thinking about the the first purposeful planning. Remember back, then, it's called the Ppc. That was purposeful. Planning collaboration is before they became an institute. And um man that those airport Conference rooms were like

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that that was packed. That was low budget. Just look where we we've gone Now it's amazing. So for those of you who have heard me talk about the purpose of planning Institute, go out and check out their website, so that you can understand that if you're working with somebody that you know is part of that that community. Um, you get a flavor, for you know what they might be bringing to the table for you.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um kristen. We have a tradition that when we start most of the people that have been on the show

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: they don't either one. They, you know they didn't think about joining the family business, or they didn't. You know they didn't know they were going to be working with families, businesses, or family wealth when they started their careers or finished college. So we'd love to hear

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: your journey. And what were the twists and turns? And how did you end up doing what you're doing today.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Yeah, yeah, that's such a It's such a fun question. Um, Because in my experience similar to what you said, most people, if you ask them when they were twenty or twenty-one or twenty-two. Um! What do you think you're gonna do? And And then you look at you know if you get to talk to them in their forties, they couldn't have named where they were going to be when they were twenty-two, and it especially in this field. The idea of like, how you end up where you end up is. Um,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Yeah. Lots of twists and turns, so i'll. I'll give the i'll give the quick story. Um!

 

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Kristin Keffeler: So I I went to college to um to go to medical school. Actually, that was I. Um, That was what I wanted to be with the doctor. Um! I won't get the story as to how I ended up pivoting from that. But ultimately I did get a an undergraduate degree in human biology and chemistry, and decided that what I really wanted to do was, go and get a master's degree in public health. Um, which is what I I started doing, and ended up combining that that degree with um a business degree, and got a

 

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Kristin Keffeler: of science and management with an emphasis in public health. And so

 

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Kristin Keffeler: that started me on this journey that I thought was going to be my career, which was, I really wanted to integrate

 

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Kristin Keffeler: the idea of of population health management. How do we look at the the health metrics within a a large data set of people and and help create behavior change programs and systems and culture that that support healthier people. Um! And I did that um in the corporate environment. So I I use the business aspect of my degree and the public health aspect of my degree. Um, and started working in um, first at the University of Denver, then, of course, Brain Company, and ended up

 

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Kristin Keffeler: up at um a hard drive developer in in Boulder County, where I live um Colorado doing help and productivity management. And that was my

 

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Kristin Keffeler: those, my personal journey, the or that was my professional journey during that time. At that same period of time there was this family journey that was happening. Um! And my! So my dad, who had been a long time entrepreneur. So he had worked

 

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Kristin Keffeler: very often inside companies inside banks, um generally building out um companies within the companies, but and his his specialty was um small equipment leasing. So they um I don't even I. Yeah, I don't even exactly understand exactly what they did, but I had sort of a high level idea, Um! And and ultimately what he decided was that he wanted to take what he had learned. Um building companies inside companies and build his own company.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Um

 

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Kristin Keffeler: at that point in time he um it, My, i'm the youngest of four. I have three older brothers um, and he and my oldest brother had worked together for um quite a few years since my brother was in his teens. Um! He had been working in various ways with my dad. Um. So at this point in time that i'm going off to college,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: and my oldest brother is in his mid twenties uh my dad decided to go. Put all this chips on the table, he remarked. Our house he he just like went. He got some investor money, and he started this company. Um, that was that was not inside another company, but was his, and ultimately

 

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Kristin Keffeler: just the right things happened. You know, economic wins at their back at this time. Right idea right? Just right, right? Right? And they his his his vision. I didn't even know things like family businesses. I never really existed at the time, and his vision was not to create a family business. His vision was to take a company public, and so um,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: even though at one point or another each of my brothers worked in the business. One of them was the janitor of the building that I mean, and one of them was the coo, so there was sort of a a broad range of uh of hierarchy there, but um ultimately what they in in

 

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Kristin Keffeler: fairly short order in the life of a business. From the time I left for college until the time I was getting ready to graduate. Um, they built the company. They had their first public offering right around the time I was graduating um

 

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Kristin Keffeler: they ultimately had a second public offering uh, not too long later, and within a year or so, and then um, and then ended up selling the company. So in this, so I was on this this professional journey, my own individual journey, and at the same time this my dad was following his dream, and as a result there were a couple of wealth creating events that that happened in my family. Um! So I spent my twenties

 

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Kristin Keffeler: on the this, this dual path of of my own pursuits, and then, being in family meetings, my Dad was very thoughtful. My parents were very thoughtful about wanting to educate us. Um, and

 

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Kristin Keffeler: so we started. Family means pretty early. They were uncomfortable the way family meetings often are at first. Um!

 

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Kristin Keffeler: And I found that over time I I wanted so badly to understand what was happening. Like you know what was an eyelid. What was the graph? What's Why, a gst! What does that mean? And um and time and time again I did not

 

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Kristin Keffeler: feel like I would go into a meeting being like really committed to trying to understand, and I would come out of a meeting feeling just as exhausted and um as and less and and no more smart than when then, when I went in and um, and so ultimately that that piece of trying to really just understand like how to do well as a rising Gen. Which that term didn't even exist back then. But how to do well as a rising Gen. In a a family where there

 

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Kristin Keffeler: there's um financial resources and some joint assets, and like, How do I even do this? Not just, you know. I would get called down to the a State planning attorney's office to sign documents, and I would just go sign them right like I. I even now, today, as my parents are both in their

 

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Kristin Keffeler: late seventies and early eighties. And we're we're we're activating parts of their estate as they. They both are in their own stages of cognitive decline um

 

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Kristin Keffeler: i'm experience like i'm seeing things where it's like. Oh, Kristen, you need to. You need to come to the closing on their house because their house was in a in a queue per, and you were the trustee, and it's like what When did I sign up for that? Um! And and so

 

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Kristin Keffeler: um i'll i'll i'll wrap up the story. But that was that was really my launching pad into this work was my own desire to try to understand, and ultimately what what I found was um a drive. The the I I felt like there must be other rising Gen. Who are trying to figure out how to best

 

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Kristin Keffeler: be in their families, live their own autonomous lives with their own visions, but also learn how to have a healthy relationship with with resources greater than what they are earning on their own, and and also how to um

 

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Kristin Keffeler: how to to be able to learn what you need to learn to be a good steward of assets that that are in the family and um, and that led me to the work that I done with rising. Gen. Ultimately to work with um with families of wealth, and then the extension of that was working with enterprising families which um I just love. I love the getting to bring in that business skill set of mine, and the the governance skill set into this, and where it all started with with rising Gen.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: And that's where my um, my heart and my passions still are.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Talk about that for just a second before we, you know I want to dive into the book, and and I think there's some correlations that you'll be able to pull back from on this. But what you just talked about. I was with a family recently, and you know Dad had done well.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: The next generation came in and did great like. Just knocked it out of the park.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um, and you know, not get out of the park, for you know, most families and and people don't know this, but you know, eighty eight percent of America has a network, including their house under a million dollars. Okay, So when you you know, not, get out of the park and you're you're sitting at seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty million dollars in that worth.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: That's you're in the top quarter top half of one of America. That's pretty amazing for sure. But for a lot of these families, you know. They don't understand, because they did the work they people like.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Just we. We're, you know. We're upper middle class.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: The The net worth was in the business. And now, if there is a event,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: liquidity, event,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and even if there's not a liquidity event when that generation dies, if the family is not coming into the business. What you know that business will get sold, and that becomes a liquidity event.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: What you know if you took, let's say you had four kids, and you were able to pass every single dollar. No estate taxes, everything else just worked, and you got now twenty million dollars. Now each of your kid has five million dollars

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: at three, Right? You're You're giving that kid a hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year of income,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and and I don't believe, and you know the the vast majority of people when they do their estate planning work when they're talking about those things they just talk about doing the equal piece my money there to my family, but they don't forget. Think about what,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: how, and you said it perfectly. I was getting more coming in from right a little bit more. How did that? How did that feel? What were? What were some of the other things that were going on for you.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Yeah. So like. What was the impact of of of family wealth in my life as I was in on the path of of my own, or earning my own income. And

 

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Kristin Keffeler: is that sort of the the of the question? Yeah. Well, I you know one of the things that um,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: I think ultimately what became

 

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Kristin Keffeler: what? What? The thankfully let me back up. Um, thankfully, my parents had a very.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: They just had a very I thoughtful way of making sure that that money didn't that they were. They were generous, and a lot of what they did right Like

 

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Kristin Keffeler: education for most families like education, is is on the table for something they would they would support, and they did um extra life events that, like you, had a brother who um parents were moving in with him from. They were coming from Spain. His uh uh parents in law were moving from Spain, and my parents helped to pay for re doing their basement, so that there was an apartment in the basement for them. They did things like that, and we always got the annual gift,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: and it so in my twenties. That was, that was all that I received. Really in terms of cash was the annual gift, and, you know, down payment for a house and lots of things that were like a massive leg up. Um! One of the things that I think was really

 

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Kristin Keffeler: um interesting for me, and I I I don't think that my brothers had the same experience, probably one because they were older, maybe two, because they're male. I don't know um, but my experience of even those small things like that that weren't small, but small on on the comparison of what

 

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Kristin Keffeler: some parents give their kids. Um

 

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Kristin Keffeler: created an um in inequality in my relationships right for specifically my primary relationship that I didn't have the tools

 

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Kristin Keffeler: to deal with. So I So I was married in my twenties. Um got married in my when I was twenty-four, and I was divorced by the time I was twenty-seven, and well this was not

 

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Kristin Keffeler: financial inequality wasn't the only reason. Looking back, I can see how in many ways it played into our relationship

 

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Kristin Keffeler: in ways that made it so. I did not

 

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Kristin Keffeler: turn to my husband for to to be an equal decision Maker. Right? Like as we are buying a house, I turn to my dad, and I can think of of a dozen other instances that i'm like. Oh, I bet that I bet he didn't feel like a full equal partner,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: and it was habit right. It was pure habit on my part. Um! And again that wasn't the only reason. But I think that that that that impacted that relationship it also um. I spent a lot of time in my twenties, managing the narrative around

 

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Kristin Keffeler: my peer group, depending on who knew me from when and what frame they had around me. I would share or not share different things right? And so um about kind of either where we had been traveling or the house we had this the second home my family had in the mountains those kinds of things, and I think so. I don't know if this gets it at the heart of your question. But for me there was this.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: I I needed to do the work to figure out what money in general was, and wasn't in my life, and then and then money, and it's accumulated format. This concept, this abstraction, that, as well like that, was this whole other level of

 

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Kristin Keffeler: of sort of work and integration. Psychologically speaking, that I needed to do um and it I I It took It took so many years, I I mean in some ways I still am trying to like, understand it all.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And I think you know It's so important for people just to understand that our relationships and money, and how that those those things come together.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: We don't always know what somebody else is feeling, or why they're feeling what they're feeling, and great time to have some questions. So I think with that in mind, you know. Let's dive into the book. Um! The the book is the myth of the silver spoon,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: and so there are I I I just want to start with the title of the Silver spoon. Talk about that a little bit.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: You know one of the things that um

 

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Kristin Keffeler: I. You know I I shared my story that, like where I started was was coaching work with rising Gen. And my heart is so in that space with those with those with the with fellow rising. Gen. And really this um the the idea of the myth of the silver spoon

 

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Kristin Keffeler: tame um came out of this, you know, as I continued to look at the situation, that um, that people who are born into families of significance where there's family enterprise that's an engine for creating

 

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Kristin Keffeler: um, either in an engine for creating wealth, or sometimes it's like. But you know many family businesses are fairly ill liquid, so it's not even that there's wealth, but that there's prestige and significance within their community, and and opportunities that come from being in that kind of family, and that

 

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Kristin Keffeler: from the outside. It looks like you should just have it made so like if you're having a problem,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: and this will be a little harsh. But the like the the feeling is like if you have a problem like shut up like I don't want to right. We would. All any one of us would pick your problem over the the the daily challenges we have, and

 

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Kristin Keffeler: and what I what I have really wanted. Um! What I wanted the book to do was to to like to point at the idea that we Ha! There's a We have a taboo about talking about money in our culture, and if we have a taboo about talking about money. We definitely don't talk about wealth,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: and I and I define the two things as separate, but interrelated in my book. Um, really talking about money is this thing that's like we actually can have a human relationship with like you can transact with money the coffee shop you pay your rent. Wealth is at the point that that money has accumulated enough to

 

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Kristin Keffeler: to be a concept. It, then then it's the it's wealth and wealth is like this whole other thing to try to understand. And the myth of the silver spoon is this idea that that

 

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Kristin Keffeler: just because you're born into a family of significance and prominence, and

 

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Kristin Keffeler: and well means that one. You don't have problems and two that your problems are less um valid than somebody else's problems, and it it's not to say like I I have tried to be very careful, and I hope that I've threaded the needle.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: It's not to say that this isn't a cry for the poor little rich girl, or poor little rich boy like that. Honestly, the the well meaning engaged rising Gen. That I work with would absolutely cringe at that idea. But what what the book is is is in part a call for us to have a

 

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Kristin Keffeler: a honest dialogue about

 

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Kristin Keffeler: our very unconscious relationship with money and well, and I apologize. I can see that the sun is creating like

 

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Kristin Keffeler: quite the quite the um,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: the the shiny on on me. I'll figure that out in a minute. Um! But

 

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Kristin Keffeler: one of the things so at the at the the core, but it's really about like, How do we? How do we pull back the curtain on on the

 

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Kristin Keffeler: the fact that there really are challenges that that culturally,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: for on the whole, um continuum of the economic spectrum. We We generally have a pretty cluttered relationship with money, and we definitely have a tangled perception of wealth, and the people who hold it, and by acknowledging that and starting to um

 

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Kristin Keffeler: work with that we can, we can actually, I think, start to really create a lot of bridges and and and have concentrate concentrated well has incredible potential for positive impact.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: The more we look at what it is and what it isn't, the more impact I think it can have, and we need to start with the individual. That individual is the rising Gen. Who this is written for and helping them Really, um really, hopefully feel seen and heard that like, Yeah, there are legitimate challenges to growing up in families with significance, with prominence, and that can create some clutter, and you can clear that clutter, and you can find a a path to a more

 

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Kristin Keffeler: healthy relationship with money and with wealth. And from there to a life of impact, whatever that looks like for you.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: So I think it's

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: might be helpful. One of the things that you talk about is, you know, the shift that's happening, and how we view wealth,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and you know, like you and I met years, many, many years ago, while we were in the middle of some of these changes. But you talk about well three,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know, when, when when talking about the book, so would you mind just kind of shed it. This would be the first time on the show that we talked about. You know those different levels, and you know the for people that don't understand. When you talk about, you know right now, you know, Web, one was just having dial up web two. We know this is the easy way to be kind of be thinking about it. Web Two was Twitter and Facebook and Amazon and Google and all these things that we're happening, you know. And then Web three is, you know, the blockchain

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: kind of world. So you see how that progresses in that arena. How? What is that progression look like when you're talking about wealth.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Yeah, I Um. That's a great question. It's one I'm very excited to talk about. Um.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: So this this work, this original kind of thought, thought, leadership framework. Um is really the Brainchild of Jim Grudman and Jim and Dennis and their long, long term um collaboration, and and Jim first presented this framework of Well, three point zero um at the two thousand and nineteen purposeful planning Institute Um conference, and he did a keynote there, and it was. It was revolutionary in terms of

 

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Kristin Keffeler: like where we what it invited the sea change that it um that he brought forth in our industry, that I think we are now starting to really actualize um. So what what Jim shared, and um, and what then? I

 

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Kristin Keffeler: I hopefully am able to be additive to as we move into this next, this next generation of well, three point zero to this this idea, he said. What's one point o was really about? It was about the dynastic wealth. Right? The Carnegie, the the Rockefellers. It's really about um in wealth. One point o families had like one key advisor that one adviser had one

 

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Kristin Keffeler: perceived one client in the family right. It was usually the patriarch and Um. And back in that time it was really about wealth, wealth, preservation, and and protection, and that was really it. And you didn't talk about money. You didn't. I mean you didn't share

 

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Kristin Keffeler: any of these kinds of conversations with family. You certainly didn't talk about the psych the psychology of money um like that was all just in a bit big black box, and the family could just sort of assume their prominence and

 

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Kristin Keffeler: move forward with that identity, and that that really started to shift in the So that was like from you know. R. Then the nineteen hundreds and and into the the

 

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Kristin Keffeler: really night or yeah, probably mid nineteen eighties. Um. Where for the first time, and this was like the emergence of wealth. Two point zero um Where there were

 

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Kristin Keffeler: the the there were the industry starting to acknowledge things like life, planning polls based investing right? This idea that you might align your values with your with the way that you invest Um, the the need for multiple kinds of advisors sitting at the table. So it's not just a financial person or the estate person, but it was really a a team of people who understood different facets of of what a family's needs were, but not necessarily

 

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Kristin Keffeler: in really coordinated ways. Yet together. Um! And while two point zero is the first time we actually had the rise of the the voice of the inheritor, Joni Bronfman did her Phd dissertation on

 

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Kristin Keffeler: um, but it like it was the first real published piece that we're where she did interviews with inheritors, and talked about um about the like. What is the inheritance, experience, and and for anybody who knows Jamie, she's um. She's from the se grum um legacy family, and and has grown up with wealth, and had clearly a personal journey in that as well, and gave us the gift of her thesis.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Out of that came many other incredible books like There Wills, his writings Um Jay Hughes's writings that Jay Hughes um Charlie Carl Collier was probably the

 

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Kristin Keffeler: first person to really talk about the multiple capitals of a family. So not just the financial capital, but human capital, social capital,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: um, family capital of, you know, like really looking at the multiple capitals. J. Hughes extended that, and also really got it into our more um common thinking as advisors and um. And and there were huge advances in the time of well, two point zero

 

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Kristin Keffeler: um. One of the things that that we think um that it's ultimately became problematic about both. Two point zero is that there's also an underlying

 

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Kristin Keffeler: negative narrative, a a narrative that, like families, are going to fail.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: There's the you know. There's you can try real hard. But this the odds are stacked against you. Um! Our best vet is to protect your family from the wealth Um.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: And and so in that there were. There were a lot of practices that came about that that

 

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Kristin Keffeler: we're probably better than what has happened before, but not good enough to really support individuals and families to thrive over the long haul. And so the call to action. And well, three point zero is is the next evolution of the field. It's really to take the best of what was in wealth. Two some of the vernacular things like rising Gen. Um,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: you know, not talking about spouses like outlaws. Um really moving to the I the idea of a married in, and those kinds of things then um, and really intentional onboarding of new family members, whether they're rising, Gen. Family members or spouses coming in, really helping them get oriented to the culture of of a family. Um.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: And

 

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Kristin Keffeler: so it. So there are many good things in wealth, two, and then in as we move to well, three point zero. The question is, how do we pull those good things let go of the bad data, the data that we've been referring to the about failure rates for families and and

 

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Kristin Keffeler: one of the things and and failure rates for family businesses, and really look at up leveling our research in our field. So we know we. So we have good strong re research design, and then good data that we can refer to. The The truth is, we don't really know what the failure rate for families is. We're just

 

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Kristin Keffeler: like W. But but we've continued to tout that we do when we continue to tout that. That it's.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: You know, seventy percent families are gonna fail, and those train in those transitions.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Um: So the call on Well, three point zero is to up level our research up level, our per professionalization. And then ultimately, from a practice perspective for us as advisors and for the families we work with, to shift to a more

 

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Kristin Keffeler: positive, inclusive, transparent um methodologies that allow that invite families to the table that prepare them, rather than prepare them for the wealth and the the responsibility of being in a family business, or even just being the representative of family business in the community, even if they don't work for the family business

 

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Kristin Keffeler: and um preparing them rather than protecting them. And so that was. That was my soap box, maybe a little too long. But no, no, no, you're You're absolutely right, and one of the things, so

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you may not know this, but I struggled with Ppi for for a few years, because I don't serve families that are worth two hundred and fifty million dollars. That's you know, if if they if they are, you know that high on the net worth, it's because most of it's in the business, it's not because of you know. Obviously, if you get that level, then it's, you know. But that's not most of my clients. My clients are, you know, under one hundred million, and I have a whole bunch that are sitting around that million. Two million dollar mark.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And one of the things that I've noticed is

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: the same feelings

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: can still be present all the way through, and that's why you know that was my soapbox, and the reason why I wanted to have this voice on the podcast, and why I, you know, continue to be a member of Ppi, because I believe that it doesn't matter the exact dollar amount

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that the if you ask

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: almost anybody, almost anybody. If you get a choice to pass what two of three things to your kids you get to choose your knowledge,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: your values or your money,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: regardless of their wealth. If you ask them that question, what two things are the answers that everybody says

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: knowledge and values right every time always. But then, if we step back regardless of net worth, regardless of where you're at,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: how much time are we actually investing in the knowledge and the values, conversations,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and that's what you're talking about with. Well, three point zero it's. Let's let's make the knowledge and the values, the forefront and utilize the wealth that we have to multiply that effect. And you may not know this, but I created this the uh a a model

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: years ago, called the Wealth multiplier, and the whole idea is that most families take their wealth,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and they'll They'll take the distributions out of it when they have it, and they'll reinvest into, you know, assets, and it just keeps circling that way. But then there's this time that for the first time it's usually college and university. I'm going to invest in the knowledge base of my

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: errors, and that does become a well multiplier in the family. Well, those families that then multiply it by what can we do about the social? What can we do about the relational pieces, and that, you know, just starts to explode the potential for wealth in the family

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: defining wealth as

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: also the knowledge, the values, the social it doesn't have to always mean dollars. It just means impact in the world.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: One of the great invitations for us. Going forward is what you just named, which is

 

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Kristin Keffeler: to to shift from having wealth be the metric for success,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: and instead to find broader metrics and and wealth is the tool right, and it doesn't mean wealth can't grow, and that wouldn't be amazing. But when wealth is truly a tool, Then, as it grows, it just creates a bigger platform for for

 

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Kristin Keffeler: change and impact. And that is

 

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Kristin Keffeler: that that's a that's a shift. It's a sea change that for for people, for advisors to think about and for families to think about. And I love your question. I think that is like a golden nugget. But like if you could pick two of the three of these three things, right knowledge, values, or money, which two would you pick like?

 

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Kristin Keffeler: No, no one. I I I have never asked that question. I'm gonna I will start, but no one is going to say same. Money matters more than the other two, right. But you're right. If you looked at a pie chart, of how much time do we spend on the wealth versus the knowledge and the values like

 

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Kristin Keffeler: it. You know it's going to be significant.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And and you know one of the things that we both have heard. The phrase, and that's what you're really working on is, Are you spending the time getting the assets ready for the heirs? Or are you getting the heirs ready for the assets? And and to that matter again. I think that that well three, if in, and if we look at it at a broad sense, we can start to say

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: assets or wealth. It is all of those other pieces. It's the framework that makes us humans is the social. It's the values, the knowledge and the assets is just the tool, you know. Money is just the tool to make those things happen, you know, and um Scott

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: um Scott!

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Oh, come on,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Yale Levy Ryan Ponsford and Scott. Oh, um!

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Hold on!

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Yup!

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I I I apologize. Scott. I'm gonna get that. I'll get the name, and we'll put it in it. Um!

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: That group was on a podcast earlier, and Scott shared a story in which

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: they didn't have they? They did this philanthropy project with a family that literally did not have excess money. They they couldn't add to the process. Okay, And so

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know what they did. Yeah, Scott Barnsworth had it right? Um, And what they did is um.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: They? They raised a little bit of money. They went, looked for spare change in the in the couch they lorded door, asking their neighbors to pull the wealth, you know, to pull the money out of their couch because they were going to donate it, and the impact that that had on the family

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: of doing that. It's just that act of giving and being, you know, knowing that there's more that's gonna happen. You don't have to keep it all to yourself. Super powerful for them. Yeah,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I I I got. I got. I don't I The reason why I make the point of it is because I know what your book is working. It is talking about, and to your point to all the people that it's intended for You don't they wouldn't want somebody to say, poor little rich kid!

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And so I just want to make the point of that. All the things that you're talking about in here. I i'm positive that it doesn't matter whether you're worth your family's worth fifty million dollars, or with fifty thousand dollars, that if you can, if you weave through the different processes and talking about well, three. It can have a huge impact and begin to multiply. You got to start where you're at

 

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Kristin Keffeler: the introduction of the the book. Um is really clearly to say, like there, you know, there are. I happen to work in a in a space where it's astronomical. Well, that's just the the the market that I work in. But this, but that one that's not where I started my work, and to um

 

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Kristin Keffeler: when when you look at that! That who this is applicable to It's it. It isn't Just people who have these behind their family net worth, or you know, many hundreds of millions of dollars. It's like It's like,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: you know, upper middle class. It's like when you have more financial resources than you need to cover your basic needs. You are faced with a different kind of question about

 

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Kristin Keffeler: how how do I want to, parent? How do I want to raise my kids in this. Where do I want to create impact in my community? How can I create impact in my community And we live?

 

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Kristin Keffeler: We We certainly live in a a where where there is

 

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Kristin Keffeler: um of wealth and equality. That is, I I think most people would agree, is problematic, and we also live in a very rich nation where there, where there's like

 

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Kristin Keffeler: many, many, many people have more than they need to cover their basic needs. And what is the question that that I think the book really um tease up is

 

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Kristin Keffeler: when you have more than you need. How do you create impact? And that impact can be one of the solutions to really looking at some of the major ills, including wealth and equality. Um, that that we face as a as a communal nation

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: great.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: So Let's talk about that a little bit. You, you know i'm reading this book. I am the rising generation. I'm having kids of my own at this point. Um! What are some of the things you know that you talk about? What are some of the tools that you know you share with people to say. Here's how we move

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: to the conversation of impact.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Yeah. Well, so that's great question. W: One of the things that I that um I outline in the book that I I hope, is helpful. Right? We'll we'll see. We'll see when it when it hits the market on November twenty second. I but I'm hopeful that it is helpful is is a framework for thinking about the different kinds of psychological clutter that people who are raised with more resources than they need for basic needs. Um. And in this case we're really talking about everything from millionaire next door

 

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Kristin Keffeler: on up. Um!

 

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Kristin Keffeler: What are the things that that? What's What are the type of

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Where are the piles of clutter that can get in the way of one self actualizing um, and and really claiming their own life in their own way, their own voice. Um! So I name four different kinds of clutter. One is money clutter, and the idea of money clutter in this, and for the sake of this I'm really talking money, and then it's extension into wealth. But it's it's really limiting beliefs around money and wealth, and um and the kind of money stories that exist inside us, that

 

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Kristin Keffeler: or maybe not helpful right? And that could be over identifying with, with, with family resources, under identifying with with family resources. Um, or in any way kind of having a um a

 

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Kristin Keffeler: sort of more uh innocent relationship with money where it's like. I don't know how to budget. I don't know about cash flow right? Just this like I don't I it's that's too complex for for whatever reason, not really engaging with and taking full responsibility for the role of money in our lives. So that's money. Clutter.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Okay, um. The second one is identity clutter, and this one. Um! This one is false beliefs about who you are and who you need to be, because you have a prominent family name that may be a prominent business within the community. That may, uh, you know, could be the kind of family that is um giving big donations to the school that you go to, or you know It's those kinds of things where it's like

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: trying to to clarify. Who am I as an individual? And how is that separate from the wealth and and money of my family and my family's name like, How do I find my own identity? Not because you paid for, but because mom and Dad, you know, are members of the Country Club

 

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Kristin Keffeler: totally. I I remember working with one um. One family where the school had been a private private school had been renamed with their family name, and she was like a middle schooler there, and she was like we were having a family meeting, and we were talking about. Kind of. Where do these things pop up for you socially, and they're in this

 

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Kristin Keffeler: the third generation

 

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Kristin Keffeler: there was everything from. She was one of the young. I think she might have been the youngest in middle school all the way up through twenty somethings. Um, and she she'd been very, quite the whole meeting, as you can imagine, a thirteen year old in a room with three generations, and all her cousins being older and um

 

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Kristin Keffeler: but she, when it came around for her to talk, she said, I'm really proud of my family. I'm really proud of my family name, and it is really strange to go to a school that is named with my family name like that that has daily. Um, there's daily There's things i'm trying to navigate because of that.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: It's like, Yeah, that's it. That's both what you would consider an awesome blessing. What a cool thing!

 

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Kristin Keffeler: And like when your last name is the same last name as the name on the building that you're going to, and everybody knows it.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: How do you get treated, and how much of that is based on who you are as a person, and how much of that is based on the last name, that pro that procedure everywhere you go.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Um. So the third, the third kind of clutter that I see really consistently is relationship clutter. And I I named that. And as I was sharing my story where

 

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Kristin Keffeler: there's I I some just unconscious stuff where it's not necessarily clear for a lot of the rising Gen. I work with. They'll have the question of like. Well, I can't tell if he. I think he really likes me for me. But

 

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Kristin Keffeler: but he but i'm not sure that's all it, or or kids in you know, elementary school, Middle school, high school we're at who will say things like,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: I know my friends love coming to my house. But is it because they love hanging out with me, or because I really have all the coolest stuff and a pool in the backyard, and and and it's like, especially at at a time when you're developmentally

 

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Kristin Keffeler: working with in group out group stuff. And who am I? How do I fit in? Which is very much the teams and and early twenties,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: trying to also detangle and have your your sort of authenticity meter out for?

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Are these people not really, my friends? And how do I tell? Is, that's that's complex stuff, right? Like. Hopefully, by the time we're in our thirties and forties and fifties we figured out that authenticity meter, and we can more quickly. Um! Identify who who are real people are and who are not our real people, but

 

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Kristin Keffeler: you know, trying to think back to what it was like in your teams and twenties, and like it's already a muddled mess of social

 

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Kristin Keffeler: interconnectivity and um, And so that, so that relationship clutter which can then extend into relationships like primary relationships, and and a lack of clarity and a lack of communication and vernacular around.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: You know wealth and equality, status and equality. What is it like to to marry into a family where there's a family enterprise and some some level of

 

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Kristin Keffeler: well, we we meet for shareholder meetings. We we have a you know you have. You have the opportunity to get on the board of directors. But what does that mean? All, all of that stuff is like part of what can create a lot of relationship clutter, and then um, finally

 

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Kristin Keffeler: uh, the The last pile of clutter I typically see is is what I've called contribution clutter, which is really about um work and impact, and it doesn't have to be paid work. But we are

 

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Kristin Keffeler: beams that are wired for impact. We are wired to do something in the world and see that what we've done has impact, and that feeds the part of us that gets validated

 

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Kristin Keffeler: for being here for taking up space, and when we don't get that validation loop

 

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Kristin Keffeler: it can like, there's a lot of narratives that can run through our minds around our value as a person. Our Matt are mattering right like we. We want to know we matter and um, and so work.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: So, removing the financial need to work which for some families that is possible for other families depending on kind of where they're at in that continuum, and how how much of their assets are liquid or ill liquid. Um, that's not really an option. But for for families where it's removing the human need to work,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: and and as as we know that there's there can be some entanglement when there's a family enterprise and some question and duty about what am I going to go work for for my family, and trying to figure out like.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: Is that really what I want? Is that what my skills are? Do I feel like I can really shine there. Um! So there's just a lot of water that can that can pile up for for rising Gen. And and family enterprise and significant families.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I I love the way that you've just put them in and named it Clutter.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: You know it it in, and all four of those again. I think everybody deals with them regardless of wealth. We all deal with that stuff, but it gets met with The what happens is the money or the assets magnify it.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And so, like you said, You know, when I was in in school I had the same relational problems, and, you know, figuring out my identity problems, you know, and and all those things. But I didn't have to do that in the world of

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: everybody wants to come to my house, because You know we have

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: horses, and we have, you know, a giant pool, and slides, and it's almost like an amusement park. When you come to my house I get. That makes an awful lot of sense. Having said that though I did help my kids, even though we didn't have the kind of money that you're. You know that we're talking about. Um.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: We put up a rock wall in our basement, a zip line and monkey bars

 

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Kristin Keffeler: and a and and every kid that ever, you know. They wanted all their birthday parties at that house because it was just like that. There is something nice. My husband and I were just talking about this the other day. There is something nice to be in the house that people want. The kids want to be at, because

 

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Kristin Keffeler: then you know where they're at, and they're so right again. This is that just points out the the sort of core

 

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Kristin Keffeler: um container of this book is this idea that none of it is black and white, that it's like you can't say wealth is a burden, and you can't say wealth is nothing but a blessing and right because it's all this continuum of trying to figure out like well, where

 

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Kristin Keffeler: at the core of it, like what you describe

 

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Kristin Keffeler: as as your the the experience of having the house. Everybody wanted to come to

 

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Kristin Keffeler: knowing you the way I do. I would bet that the reason you guys did that was. It was based on a core value of of family and the connectivity that you have. And so that choice is based on a value not based on

 

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Kristin Keffeler: so something else. It's about like you wanted to like. Show off to all the neighbors like. What a cool house you have Right So um So Ultimately, I think that that that is part of the detangling around. This is like

 

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Kristin Keffeler: money and wealth. They have a status that

 

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Kristin Keffeler: we have allowed we buy into, and it creates a lot of

 

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Kristin Keffeler: entanglement that

 

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Kristin Keffeler: that the more we can figure it out, the more that we can actually understand that gray zone and then make decisions based on values based on who we are, and then that the resources we have, whether their social resources or financial resources. Um can be used to magnify.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I love it. Um! I'll share with you. I was recently talking to somebody we you talking about family values

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and the impact that we can have on. And I I think it's really important that we're that we're having impact on those coming behind us. You know It's the the opportunity wouldn't be there without those that came before us. But then it's the how are we impacting and leaving those that are coming behind us? We always want to leave them in a better position. So the family was going through a process of naming their values and putting all these pieces together, and somebody said, I hope you know that their advisor that they were working with said, I hope you don't mind this,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know. But you guys are like elephants. You're really really really loud,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: but you always want to be together, and they just thought that was the neatest thing to the point so much that they created a little logo of an elephant and started putting it on on clothing. And one of the kids, you know, went to school, and they're like, you know. What's that they're like. Oh, that's our family logo that's awesome.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And and and what what to end it, so that you know, she she thought she might get, you know, Hassle for it. But the other kid was like, No, I i'm our family doesn't have a family,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and and again logo that piece the the you know, used to be a family crest was, What are our families values? Yeah, that's such a great story. Because, like who

 

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Kristin Keffeler: like? Who doesn't, who wouldn't that touch their heart to feel like I am part of a tribe like this is my tribe, and it might be messy, and it might be loud and it. But, like this is my tribe.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I love the right. So that came from uh, a gentleman that was shared the story from. He runs a company called Total Family Management. Um! That just helps people engage in conversations around values, and

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: great resource is there, You know it. We're coming up on the on on time, and I don't cover enough about the book we we covered so many great things is there? You know

 

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Kristin Keffeler: something about the book. Another piece in the book where you like. Don't miss this. This is one of my you know one of your favorite. You know one of your golden nuggets that you wanted to talk about. Yeah, I guess what what I would say is um

 

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Kristin Keffeler: like every page in this book I I actually have an early release copy. The book comes out on November twenty second. So um you you can pre order it. Um! And if anybody is interested in actually buying it in bulk. Um.

 

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Kristin Keffeler: One of the things about the publishing industry that I've learned is that authors are contractually obligated to buy some number of books, and so I can sell them to you in bulk um cheaper than you can get them somewhere else, and I will get them out of my basement. So just that just a note, but one of the things I guess i'll say is that um

 

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Kristin Keffeler: I

 

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Kristin Keffeler: I carved my soul out to write this book in a way that I I hope

 

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Kristin Keffeler: I really hope, is meaningful to to not only the rising Jen who is the primary audience I wrote it for, but also to their parents and to their trusted advisors. And so

 

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Kristin Keffeler: um, I've intentionally designed the content in the book to address all three audiences. So if as um yeah, I guess that's the final thing I would just want to say is that I think that it is intended not only to be a supportive resource for rising Gen. To name the clutter, clear the clutter,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: build the the character, traits, and skills of example are rising. Gen. And then look towards a path of impact which is really kind of the story arc for the rising Gen. But there's specific things throughout the book for parents, two specific chapters for parents, and then references through the book to say like, Hey, this is this is something you can think about to support the growth of this particular character. Trader. Skill. Um! So there! There's stuff for parents, and there's stuff for trusted advisors,

 

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Kristin Keffeler: and my hope is that everybody feels like they have a actionable thing to do in reading the book that they can walk away and say, All right. That's something I can actually There's a how in there? Not just a what? Um! So I guess that's where i'll. I'll end it.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I love it. Well, Kristen Kepler, Thank you for joining us. The author of the brand new book coming out this month in November, the myth of the silver Spoon navigating family wealth and creating an impactful life.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um! And that'll be available on Amazon and Burns and nobles, and all the other places where you can get books, I would imagine right looking for um bulk books. You can contact Kristen here. Get them out of my basement. I'll give them to you for my cost, so my my greatest joy would be one to have those books in the hands of a lot of people and two to not have them taking up a whole corner of my basement,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and that, uh, I can totally understand how that goes. Uh. This has been amazing. I really appreciate you sharing. We talked about some things that haven't been discussed on the show before, and that's one of the things that's always important to me. So I appreciate you bringing that for those of you that are thinking about the book. Let me just tell you, based on my experience with Kristen. Through the years I have learned so many things from you you've shared,

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and you Do you know, I know you poured your heart out into this, and it's, you know the amount of experiences that you have been through personally, and in your professional working with rising Jen's, there's just going to be a wealth of knowledge inside there. So please don't even hesitate. Grab the book, and um! You will be certainly glad that you did so. Thank you. Thank you, Michael. Thank you for this time in this conversation, as always like. It's a joy to talk to you, and i'm really delighted that we had our inaugural possible.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I look forward to many more.

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Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances.

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