Broker Check


Episode 82: Investing in Success; The Power of Human Capital in Family Business Sustainability

In the latest episode of "The Family Business Show," host Michael Palumbos interviews Jamie Weiner, author of "The Quest for Legitimacy." Jamie's book explores the unique challenges faced by children from affluent families as they strive to find their place in the world and establish their own identities, separate from their family's wealth and accomplishments.

Michael and Jamie discuss the journey of self-discovery and the importance of finding one's own path, irrespective of family background. They delve into the concept of "breaking moments" – pivotal points in life that significantly impact one's personal growth and self-perception. Jamie shares insights from his research, including interviews with individuals from diverse backgrounds, illustrating the universal struggle for authenticity and self-validation.

The conversation also touches on the cultural nuances that influence family dynamics and individual aspirations. They emphasize the significance of supporting the next generation in exploring their interests and passions, even if they diverge from family traditions or expectations.

Michael relates his personal experiences and reflections on parenthood, highlighting the delicate balance between guiding children and allowing them to forge their own destinies. He and Jamie advocate for a holistic approach to family legacy, emphasizing the transfer of values and knowledge alongside financial wealth.

This episode offers valuable perspectives for both family business members and those interested in the psychological aspects of wealth and identity. It encourages listeners to consider their own "quest for legitimacy" and the ways in which they can support loved ones on their individual journeys.

Watch the entire episode!

Episode 82 Transcript


1

00:00:02.270 --> 00:00:10.590

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Well welcome everybody to the family business show. I am your host, Michael Columbus, with family wealth and legacy in Rochester, New York. Welcome

 

2

00:00:10.600 --> 00:00:25.379

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: um. Today we have a really cool show for you talking about a topic that we've touched on throughout. You know, several episodes, but nothing that we spent the whole time talking about. So, Jamie Weiner, thank you for joining us.

 

3

00:00:25.510 --> 00:00:34.940

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: My pleasure. We're good to be here, and the book that you have just written, and it's out on Amazon right now is called the quest for legitimacy,

 

4

00:00:35.360 --> 00:00:51.490

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: for legitimacy of children of problem with families find their unique place in the world. It's a mouthful on the website right now, and growing up in the shadow of a giant, brings unique challenges. I will throw to you

 

5

00:00:51.500 --> 00:00:57.459

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that you know it. It definitely happens when, when, when, uh,

 

6

00:00:57.470 --> 00:01:15.449

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know you, you have great wealth, and you and you have masked great well, being the child of a mother or father who's super successful. My father, you know I'm. I've lived this my whole entire life. Um, so i'm really excited to talk about this because

 

7

00:01:15.460 --> 00:01:30.160

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: um, you know my father was one of the top, you know one hundred, you know people, you know, in the in the company that were with that we're with. And when I, Jo, you know that was the company that I decided to bring just based on

 

8

00:01:30.170 --> 00:01:39.379

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: um the training that they had, and you know what I had learned from my father, but like I was never Michael Columbus, I was Marty, son.

 

9

00:01:39.450 --> 00:01:58.219

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: There you go, and so you know it. It's very funny. Um! And to this day Dad's retired. Now, um! You know It's we We We have the same thing. Hey, Michael, how you doing? Say hello to your father.

 

10

00:01:58.230 --> 00:02:12.399

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: It's it's It's never! How are you first? So, um Jamie, what we have a a tradition on the show. We ask people to to share with us your journey.

 

11

00:02:12.410 --> 00:02:26.240

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um. We, you know there are several universities today that have, you know, family business and family wealth. Um, you know, studies within the you know, within their campuses,

 

12

00:02:26.690 --> 00:02:36.549

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: many years ago, ten, twenty, thirty, forty years ago that didn't exist. So, for you know, guys like you and I, people like you and I, who,

 

13

00:02:36.640 --> 00:02:40.649

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know, ended up working with either family businesses or families of Well,

 

14

00:02:40.940 --> 00:02:51.549

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: there had to be a twisting, turning road to get there, in my opinion, not always. But we'd love to hear your background. How did you know? Where did you start? How did you end up doing the work that you're doing today.

 

15

00:02:52.310 --> 00:03:07.200

Jamie Weiner: So Mike is a great question, because you and I are most so used to um being in the space and thinking about these kinds of things and um, It's important for us to realize that it's a relatively new thing.

 

16

00:03:07.510 --> 00:03:14.520

Jamie Weiner: I was born a rail by his kids, so it's a little bit different, but it came from a prominent family.

 

17

00:03:14.670 --> 00:03:15.930

Jamie Weiner: Um,

 

18

00:03:16.900 --> 00:03:34.670

Jamie Weiner: I start the book actually with a cute story um about being in the sanctuary, and somebody a little kid um popping up his head and saying, Mom, is that God? And crawling under the uh seat behind me and going

 

19

00:03:34.770 --> 00:03:39.070

Jamie Weiner: well? No, that's my dad, and uh,

 

20

00:03:39.140 --> 00:03:44.689

Jamie Weiner: and so I I can understand what it must have been like being Marty's son.

 

21

00:03:44.830 --> 00:03:46.280

Jamie Weiner: Um!

 

22

00:03:46.530 --> 00:03:55.720

Jamie Weiner: About fifteen years ago my wife, who was came from a business owning family. Her parents died thirty-five days apart from each other.

 

23

00:03:56.000 --> 00:04:01.649

Jamie Weiner: And um! There have been a generation before that had a family business.

 

24

00:04:01.750 --> 00:04:20.290

Jamie Weiner: Um. When that business ended, everybody stopped talking to each other, and nobody went to the funeral, and we had to make sure we weren't going to have that happen in our family. So that was really the beginning of the work, and as I began to work with rising Jen,

 

25

00:04:20.300 --> 00:04:38.110

Jamie Weiner: I always noticed that there was kind of a you know. We did a psychologist by background. You sort of pick up on things even before people start talking, and I always noticed that there was some impact of growing up in a prominent family,

 

26

00:04:38.330 --> 00:04:41.810

Jamie Weiner: and I figured might as well I

 

27

00:04:41.910 --> 00:04:45.660

Jamie Weiner: So I started. I met Ross. Hey? Worth

 

28

00:04:45.770 --> 00:04:52.640

Jamie Weiner: um and um for the Uk. Who's also got a podcast.

 

29

00:04:52.660 --> 00:04:56.139

Jamie Weiner: Everybody's got a podcast and uh

 

30

00:04:56.170 --> 00:05:03.480

Jamie Weiner: um, Russ and I started interviewing, rising Gen. Family members and asking the simple question,

 

31

00:05:03.530 --> 00:05:08.490

Jamie Weiner: which was, What's it like growing up in Thelanta giants,

 

32

00:05:08.550 --> 00:05:26.300

Jamie Weiner: and guess what? Nobody asked what we asked, what we meant by giants, They immediately said, Yeah, you know, Marty's my giants um, you know. And and the rage was huge because it was the oldest was about a four hundred and fifty year Old Company,

 

33

00:05:26.310 --> 00:05:30.890

Jamie Weiner: because there is Still, we're giants along the road. So

 

34

00:05:31.470 --> 00:05:35.010

Jamie Weiner: so that's kind of how I got into this whole

 

35

00:05:36.050 --> 00:05:50.839

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: pursue, Gotcha. And so your your background. You know you. You come from a a psychology background. Psychiatry background is that that I get to catch that

 

36

00:05:51.260 --> 00:05:52.970

Jamie Weiner: um

 

37

00:05:53.720 --> 00:06:03.019

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: in the last. I think It's almost twenty years have been doing family business, consulting

 

38

00:06:03.730 --> 00:06:05.030

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: So

 

39

00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:11.569

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: how many you we? We talk about doing interviews. I uh, approximately. How many people did you interview. Do you mind me asking?

 

40

00:06:11.960 --> 00:06:16.569

Jamie Weiner: Well, let's not do approximately. It was twenty-five people

 

41

00:06:16.830 --> 00:06:22.299

Jamie Weiner: from around the globe so indonesia Chicago, costa Rica

 

42

00:06:22.410 --> 00:06:24.300

Jamie Weiner: and um

 

43

00:06:24.690 --> 00:06:33.550

Jamie Weiner: I I don't know if I did anybody from Rochester, New York, though, anyways uh um and um,

 

44

00:06:34.890 --> 00:06:53.290

Jamie Weiner: and the range So the oldest person that I interviewed at the time was seventy-five years old, and he was looking back on the experience. Um. He was part of the Kaiser family, which at one Point was one of the largest and wealthiest families in the country.

 

45

00:06:54.360 --> 00:07:02.260

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: When you, in in talking to these people, what did you find? You know what were some of the unique challenges that

 

46

00:07:02.840 --> 00:07:05.869

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that you were hearing what were the themes that you were hearing.

 

47

00:07:07.380 --> 00:07:08.570

Jamie Weiner: So

 

48

00:07:09.660 --> 00:07:16.020

Jamie Weiner: there's a difference between feeling successful and feeling legitimate,

 

49

00:07:17.150 --> 00:07:33.899

Jamie Weiner: and we interview people even who were successful at a point in their life, but still didn't feel in relationship to the giants that they were born. Next to that they have established a sense of their own legitimacy.

 

50

00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:39.460

Jamie Weiner: So the the the biggest one, was the whole thing about

 

51

00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:43.630

Jamie Weiner: whether you felt you were enough, whether you measured up

 

52

00:07:43.890 --> 00:07:59.970

Jamie Weiner: Um, I I think that's a be somewhat universal feeling. But I think when you have the experience of growing up with somebody who's built something or been part of something that's very large,

 

53

00:08:00.620 --> 00:08:01.790

Jamie Weiner: and it

 

54

00:08:02.230 --> 00:08:13.619

Jamie Weiner: it it could be the the general store, or in in the in the town, so i'm not making it that you gotta be a multi billion there to be a a giant

 

55

00:08:14.030 --> 00:08:18.759

Jamie Weiner: and um, and I think that was the primary

 

56

00:08:19.060 --> 00:08:21.699

Jamie Weiner: um thing that we found.

 

57

00:08:22.230 --> 00:08:23.720

Jamie Weiner: Um.

 

58

00:08:26.660 --> 00:08:45.350

Jamie Weiner: I. You know the other things that i'd love to talk about is i'd love to talk about um one. How how everybody we we interviewed have breaking moments, and then from there we probably should touch on the fact that we we discovered a payoff,

 

59

00:08:45.390 --> 00:08:51.740

Jamie Weiner: and that by discovering their path we really think we can make it a difference in the lives

 

60

00:08:51.880 --> 00:09:09.590

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: in a way that I in modesty I don't think any else is. Anybody else has been done before that would be able to change people's lives.

 

61

00:09:10.810 --> 00:09:15.400

Jamie Weiner: Breaking moments is a very interesting idea. Um!

 

62

00:09:16.370 --> 00:09:28.510

Jamie Weiner: When I look back at my own life I can identify a chain of of breaking moments, and it's a very important concept that. Um

 

63

00:09:29.070 --> 00:09:32.430

Jamie Weiner: that's worth thinking about. Because

 

64

00:09:32.560 --> 00:09:43.850

Jamie Weiner: um parents, when somebody has a breaking moments sometimes in this Co current world jump in and want to do this repair scene.

 

65

00:09:44.030 --> 00:09:55.279

Jamie Weiner: But, um! And I I wouldn't encourage. I am not looking for people to have breaking moments. But, for example, Ratio, one of the people we interviewed in the book.

 

66

00:09:55.550 --> 00:10:01.710

Jamie Weiner: Um, it's a longer story that fired by email from his father.

 

67

00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:07.390

Jamie Weiner: Stop talking to his dad for two years, and during that period of his life

 

68

00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:12.149

Jamie Weiner: re-figured who he is and what he wanted to do.

 

69

00:10:12.550 --> 00:10:17.009

Jamie Weiner: So it was a couple of years. He was crushed at first,

 

70

00:10:17.460 --> 00:10:25.419

Jamie Weiner: and two years later he had a point where he had a position as a professor at a university.

 

71

00:10:25.460 --> 00:10:38.440

Jamie Weiner: His dad was Indian, and his mom was not. He Hadn't spoken to his dad for two years, and he took the risk and decided that before he would start he would go home and not going to stay in store.

 

72

00:10:38.490 --> 00:10:42.089

Jamie Weiner: It was read by his dad, and his dad said

 

73

00:10:42.410 --> 00:10:44.529

Jamie Weiner: I was so glad you did this.

 

74

00:10:45.600 --> 00:11:00.210

Jamie Weiner: I wouldn't have done it, and there was a cultural thing going on in the background of that. But from that point on it changed Rishi's life in a change his relationship with his father.

 

75

00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:02.770

Jamie Weiner: So they're less dramatic

 

76

00:11:02.930 --> 00:11:15.829

Jamie Weiner: examples in the book. But that's a pretty dramatic example. I I called that period that um he was struggling, being in a period of limb, and all of a sudden

 

77

00:11:16.020 --> 00:11:24.820

Jamie Weiner: a feeling betwixt in between. So i'm a psychologist, i'm not calling it the pressure. I'm. Making a distinction

 

78

00:11:24.860 --> 00:11:29.240

Jamie Weiner: and trying to, you know, emphasize. And

 

79

00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:32.940

Jamie Weiner: there were a couple of cases where I think it was depression,

 

80

00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:37.690

Jamie Weiner: but i'm trying to emphasize that people have hard times in their life,

 

81

00:11:37.760 --> 00:11:52.270

Jamie Weiner: and that's not exactly what we would think about in terms of clinical depression. It's struggling, and that it it can be the beginning of the quest to figure out what you really want to do with your life right,

 

82

00:11:52.320 --> 00:12:07.919

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know, when you think about it. It. Maslow did a pretty good job of putting together a formula right, you know, years and years ago of am I safe? Am I? You know, in My! Am I? Can I take it? I take risks?

 

83

00:12:07.930 --> 00:12:27.470

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um, you know. Do I have my autonomy, and do I make a difference, or you know how it. How did my life matter? You know what's my purpose? And am I gonna matter? And one of the things that I've been playing with and trying to, you know, help Families to understand is that we put all these systems together

 

84

00:12:27.550 --> 00:12:29.469

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: for the wealth

 

85

00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:48.319

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: we get out, how to create. Well, how to. You know how to manage well how to pass wealth and you. But there's there's not a ton of systems for families to be putting into place. It's we know in our industry that there's a lot of people like you and I that are. It's this burgeoning,

 

86

00:12:48.330 --> 00:13:01.540

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know, uh quest out there like your request for legitimacy to help people to understand. And you know it's there should be a system in place that the parents understand that really their job is not to

 

87

00:13:02.060 --> 00:13:03.440

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: be the giant.

 

88

00:13:03.950 --> 00:13:29.339

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Their job is to help their children stand on their own pedestal and and find out what they're passionate about, and how they're going to make a difference in the world, because if we're all cut exactly like our fathers or our mothers, it's going to be a really boring world. When I. I absolutely love that that you know about Maslow and more more people. Then they mean something.

 

89

00:13:29.350 --> 00:13:42.509

Jamie Weiner: Um may not mean something to your whole audience, but it was really the idea of the development happens over the course of a lifetime, and I think rising happens over the course of a lifetime.

 

90

00:13:42.520 --> 00:14:11.830

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: That's a great way to to talk about it, because it's not something like, hey? Okay, you're a teenager. Now you're thirteen, you know. You go and get your bar, and that's for you. Go, get your confirmation. Whatever you know you become the you become you, you a teenager for the first time now yourself actualized. Not a wouldn't it be nice? It'd be super nice.

 

91

00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:18.650

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: But uh, you know, there there had to be for the people that you interviewed. You know

 

92

00:14:18.850 --> 00:14:21.219

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: there had to be some awareness,

 

93

00:14:21.350 --> 00:14:28.000

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: or to what was what they were feeling and what was going on. What did that? What was like that like for them?

 

94

00:14:29.550 --> 00:14:31.790

Jamie Weiner: So, yes and no,

 

95

00:14:31.810 --> 00:14:37.009

Jamie Weiner: you know when you have a breaking moment in your life. It could be a divorce

 

96

00:14:37.170 --> 00:14:47.319

Jamie Weiner: could be, whatever you you're not thinking about. Oh, My God, this is an opportunity you're thinking about. Oh, my God! I just got kicked on the team.

 

97

00:14:47.380 --> 00:14:52.129

Jamie Weiner: And you you you! You're going

 

98

00:14:52.600 --> 00:15:01.020

Jamie Weiner: a a a lot of people. It's self pity at that point. Yeah, um.

 

99

00:15:01.750 --> 00:15:03.130

Jamie Weiner: And

 

100

00:15:03.350 --> 00:15:10.280

Jamie Weiner: it's only through the process of of sorting sorting stuff out.

 

101

00:15:11.030 --> 00:15:17.550

Jamie Weiner: Do you begin to maybe be able to look back and go. God, I wish that in the But

 

102

00:15:18.250 --> 00:15:22.380

Jamie Weiner: yeah, I think it's that. But there's very important.

 

103

00:15:22.880 --> 00:15:24.290

Jamie Weiner: Um,

 

104

00:15:25.300 --> 00:15:40.649

Jamie Weiner: and that's part of the message that i'm also kind of giving about parenting because somebody somebody in this wonderful little two minute video, but a butterfly. I'm a young man walking and discovering a cocoon,

 

105

00:15:40.660 --> 00:15:54.059

Jamie Weiner: and deciding to sit down and watch the butterfly emerge, which doesn't happen real quickly, and the butterflies halfway out, and seems to be stuck. So the young man cuts off the cocoon

 

106

00:15:54.370 --> 00:15:57.889

Jamie Weiner: and holds the butterfly and waits for it to fly.

 

107

00:15:58.030 --> 00:16:05.940

Jamie Weiner: Well, that last period is when the butterfly releases what needs to be released in order for the wings to work,

 

108

00:16:06.310 --> 00:16:07.650

Jamie Weiner: and

 

109

00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:10.550

Jamie Weiner: I it just It touched me

 

110

00:16:10.750 --> 00:16:25.689

Jamie Weiner: because it was in two minutes it sort of captured the whole thing, and the whole transition to be coming um to rising and taking it, and being able to have some um to to fly.

 

111

00:16:26.540 --> 00:16:27.790

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: So

 

112

00:16:28.970 --> 00:16:38.740

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: walk me through, so that I i'm trying to make the connection between the breaking moments and the quest for legitimacy. So

 

113

00:16:38.820 --> 00:16:48.390

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: take a step back for me for a second just, and I apologize, but i'm like so I i'm You know i'm somebody that you've interviewed.

 

114

00:16:48.560 --> 00:16:54.030

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I'm i'm feeling that i'm looking for this quest for legitimacy. What? I guess?

 

115

00:16:54.360 --> 00:17:04.299

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Where am I? What's happening? What's it through the interviews that you did? What's the the theme before the breaking moment, and after the breaking moment. So I guess am I missing that?

 

116

00:17:05.670 --> 00:17:17.609

Jamie Weiner: I? So let's do before i'm gonna do it very quickly. Yeah, that's we're fine before you all this email. You kind of have these moments,

 

117

00:17:18.300 --> 00:17:24.850

Jamie Weiner: And Henry Kaiser was a good example. Henry Kaiser, and then, you know, got sent to a private school

 

118

00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:26.359

Jamie Weiner: in

 

119

00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:34.949

Jamie Weiner: it early on there was this message that he better prepare because his someday in his life something important was going to happen,

 

120

00:17:36.050 --> 00:17:43.840

Jamie Weiner: and he got sent off to the boarding school. I don't think he really wanted to go to boarding school.

 

121

00:17:43.940 --> 00:17:45.350

Jamie Weiner: Um,

 

122

00:17:45.490 --> 00:17:49.699

Jamie Weiner: and that was kind of the beginning, and

 

123

00:17:49.890 --> 00:17:57.470

Jamie Weiner: the the beauty of what happened was along the way. I picked up a research team from the University of Adelaide.

 

124

00:17:58.060 --> 00:18:14.600

Jamie Weiner: Um. I met the researcher at an elevators, and we got off the elevator, he said, God, that's great. We should do some journal articles together, and so it's one of those magic moments for me. We're all of a sudden, I've had a practitioner research team,

 

125

00:18:14.980 --> 00:18:23.169

Jamie Weiner: and what we discovered is whether it was Indonesia, Chicago, or Costa Rica that there was a pattern

 

126

00:18:23.740 --> 00:18:31.110

Jamie Weiner: wasn't. Linear so it wasn't like you did step one, and then you did step two, but it started with awareness,

 

127

00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:33.490

Jamie Weiner: and um

 

128

00:18:33.990 --> 00:18:46.390

Jamie Weiner: I don't know for you, if you remember the early moments of awareness of growing up in a prominent family? But even the story of being the sanctuary and having that little boy say,

 

129

00:18:46.660 --> 00:18:57.979

Jamie Weiner: is this God, his mother? Sort of them one of those moments where it's something a little bit different about who my dad is in the world. I was born into

 

130

00:18:58.780 --> 00:19:04.200

Jamie Weiner: it. It moves from awareness into um what I call the tug of war,

 

131

00:19:04.460 --> 00:19:10.979

Jamie Weiner: because you grow up in a culture and your family, and you're aware of it, and a lot of the families you and I work about work with.

 

132

00:19:11.270 --> 00:19:28.419

Jamie Weiner: You have family governance. They have all kinds of things going on um they they! They may not be aware that somebody is already, you know, doing a state plans for them, and figuring out what's going to happen to them later in their lives.

 

133

00:19:28.430 --> 00:19:53.620

Jamie Weiner: Um! But as you go out into the world you begin to discover other things what you were brought up, and at First you come home and parents go. God, that's so great, are you! Where do you? She learn? Learn this little bit Later you come home and they go. Oh, my God! Where where did he? And she learned this? And it's a t of war between two big being in two worlds

 

134

00:19:54.110 --> 00:20:05.650

Jamie Weiner: it moves on, and with Covid I hope it's still the same. But um! The next period is a period of exploration.

 

135

00:20:06.620 --> 00:20:08.060

Jamie Weiner: Um,

 

136

00:20:09.030 --> 00:20:17.569

Jamie Weiner: One of the people I interviewed. Um. Father's business. Um failed during around the Les,

 

137

00:20:18.120 --> 00:20:27.919

Jamie Weiner: and she managed to convince her parents to find a way to have her um. There's a Mexican background to go

 

138

00:20:27.930 --> 00:20:44.980

Jamie Weiner: um explore other cultures, travel, learn gain insights, and she never lost that connection to the the culture she was brought up in. But she also became rich by what she experienced, and use that period to sort out

 

139

00:20:45.560 --> 00:20:55.200

Jamie Weiner: the different the world she brought up into what she was learning to form, who she was, because the last period is taking ownership of your life,

 

140

00:20:55.210 --> 00:21:07.479

Jamie Weiner: and the word that is a more of a psychological road. But he has the agency feeling like you have some control over the decisions you're making,

 

141

00:21:07.770 --> 00:21:19.440

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And so what? So that really makes an awful lot of sense. Um, you know I I just. I can only look at it from my experience. My awareness was, you know,

 

142

00:21:19.450 --> 00:21:41.979

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: the first time I got interviewed at the company that my father works for the you know they, the the manager said to me, Michael, you know, just based on the your your name. I'll bring you in tomorrow. When I was one of those non traditional students. So I had, you know, not finished my my college education. I had, you know, gotten an associates, but you know, kept, you know, pushing it off.

 

143

00:21:41.990 --> 00:21:43.069

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And he said,

 

144

00:21:43.180 --> 00:22:00.800

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: You know when somebody asks you, where did you graduate from? You know. What are you gonna say? Your father graduated from X Y and Z Um. And so what are you gonna say? And i'm like, okay, And that was enough to get me to go back to school. But it was that

 

145

00:22:00.820 --> 00:22:16.909

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that comparison that happened. And then, the first time you're walking through the office or walking through a company event that's outside of the office even bigger. And there, you know you. You've got the name tag on, and hey, you're Marty, son, and so then there's this awareness of

 

146

00:22:17.170 --> 00:22:30.380

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that. You didn't have at home. How? What an impact Dad had made in the world outside of the house, you know it is, if that makes sense. And Then there was that, you know

 

147

00:22:30.450 --> 00:22:39.730

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I wanna I I think the tug of war was a little different from me than than what you're talking about, but I think the tug war was. This is the way Dad did things.

 

148

00:22:40.890 --> 00:22:43.920

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I don't know if that's the way I want to do things

 

149

00:22:44.580 --> 00:23:01.180

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that that makes sense, and I, you know. And so for me the exploration was like finding the purpose of planning Institute and and having a conversation with J. Hughes, and and just starting to look at this thing and say, there's more to

 

150

00:23:01.230 --> 00:23:20.849

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: wealth and just money. So where there's wealth in the knowledge and the values, and what not of the family, and I wouldn't have discovered all of that stuff, and gotten to the point where I have my own podcast, and i'm like I am I and I just like doing this work, you know. But I, as you were going through those pieces

 

151

00:23:20.860 --> 00:23:25.279

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I conduct, you know, in the in the different steps. I can definitely feel how

 

152

00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:26.860

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that was my life,

 

153

00:23:27.830 --> 00:23:45.469

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know. I'm so surprised. I just assumed you did everything the way Marty did it right, and you know we we have. We have an even closer um connection that you you don't know this, but my father um his mother, had four boys,

 

154

00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:48.869

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and she put all four boys into the seminary.

 

155

00:23:49.220 --> 00:24:05.760

Jamie Weiner: Only one came out of Priest, but she knew that if she put four in it there was a pretty good idea that you know It's not uncommon for people who grow up in problems with families to to struggle with school.

 

156

00:24:06.450 --> 00:24:20.690

Jamie Weiner: So it's a It's a great example. I did right, I did I? I didn't go. Oh, great! I'm going straight for what I want to do. It took a long time to kind of sort it all out.

 

157

00:24:20.750 --> 00:24:30.190

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Yeah. And and I think you know, in hindsight I can look back and say, you know, Dad was successful. He was a you know, the first generation Wealth Creator.

 

158

00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:49.439

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um again not you know, he having super proud of dad. He's done in incredible. But we're not talking, you know. Uh, Walmart, you know Walton well but definitely, you know top three of America kind of a thing, you know done really really well for himself.

 

159

00:24:49.520 --> 00:24:51.000

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And

 

160

00:24:51.250 --> 00:25:10.580

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: yeah, I guess the oldest. I watched it to go from Point A to Point B. Um. I was in the very first house that was, you know very blue collar, very, and in the second house, where it was very, you know, Middle Middle America,

 

161

00:25:10.590 --> 00:25:21.569

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: um, and then watch them. The The year I went to college for the first time. Um, they, you know, moved into this neighborhood and into this house that I was like

 

162

00:25:21.610 --> 00:25:32.830

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: man. My sisters have got it great. And my my brother, they're they're love it. They're looking. That's fun. Um!

 

163

00:25:32.850 --> 00:25:38.020

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: So that the breaking moment now is that you know it.

 

164

00:25:38.050 --> 00:25:44.439

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: This This makes it to me. This is making more sense. I've gone through this journey. I've done these things.

 

165

00:25:44.450 --> 00:26:00.989

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Where does the breaking moment talking about? You know that you know, like you, you mentioned the one story. Can you give some other examples of other people that have had? You know they've gone through being in the shadow of the giant through the breaking moment. What were some of the other breaking moments that people had had?

 

166

00:26:01.490 --> 00:26:05.089

Jamie Weiner: So the the one i'm going to share is um

 

167

00:26:05.380 --> 00:26:10.989

Jamie Weiner: may feel kind of a different, but it it somebody who grew up in um

 

168

00:26:11.170 --> 00:26:13.089

Jamie Weiner: uh costa rica

 

169

00:26:13.300 --> 00:26:19.130

Jamie Weiner: um grew up in a family that uh played tons of tennis,

 

170

00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:24.959

Jamie Weiner: and fairly early on in his life he um! We had an injury.

 

171

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:27.700

Jamie Weiner: So it was a literal breaking moment,

 

172

00:26:28.450 --> 00:26:38.339

Jamie Weiner: and the injury from that point on meant that he was not going to play tennis at the level that his family played tennis,

 

173

00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:45.219

Jamie Weiner: and he started to form other friendships different than the family's friendships.

 

174

00:26:46.020 --> 00:26:47.320

Jamie Weiner: Um!

 

175

00:26:47.790 --> 00:26:50.839

Jamie Weiner: This is such a fun interview to do.

 

176

00:26:51.050 --> 00:26:54.029

Jamie Weiner: He had a guitar hanging on the wall.

 

177

00:26:54.180 --> 00:27:08.860

Jamie Weiner: Um! He! You could tell that there was something different about him, and he really decided that what he wanted to do for that, and primarily with his life is play tennis and make me a uh with surf and make music,

 

178

00:27:09.150 --> 00:27:13.199

Jamie Weiner: and he did really well on making music,

 

179

00:27:13.390 --> 00:27:30.429

Jamie Weiner: and at some point realized he needed to make a little bit of money. So um dad had a chain of um. Probably it's they weren't seven eleven, but that kind of store, and he created a business making sandwiches.

 

180

00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:38.930

Jamie Weiner: We could do, we could do in a much shorter period of time. He actually one point had one hundred people working for him, making sandwiches,

 

181

00:27:39.020 --> 00:27:57.759

Jamie Weiner: and all of that was really designed to for his ability to to surf and make music. So it was a little breaking moment, but it clearly changed his life, and for a while there was really a struggle with the and brothers who

 

182

00:27:57.960 --> 00:28:08.420

Jamie Weiner: who had this idea of where he should be going, what what he should be doing. And you know a lot of people assume you're gonna end up in the family business. You did

 

183

00:28:08.660 --> 00:28:12.039

Jamie Weiner: It's not. Everybody ends up on the phone with this

 

184

00:28:12.060 --> 00:28:20.000

Jamie Weiner: right, and not everybody should have that in the family business. Yeah, you know It's funny that you say that because

 

185

00:28:20.570 --> 00:28:29.990

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I I haven't had these specific conversations with my siblings, but I do feel there are times when you know

 

186

00:28:31.170 --> 00:28:43.709

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: they they may feel, and I should. I should reach out to them and have these conversations that they may feel. Boy weren't you lucky working with dad all those to all those years and um,

 

187

00:28:43.930 --> 00:29:00.270

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know just some. You know the fact that they didn't take that path or go down that road uh just a different um experience for them. Still, every one of my siblings I still think that they feel the shadow

 

188

00:29:00.280 --> 00:29:12.160

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: of the giant. Um, because Dad, you know, was successful and did have you know, some wonderful experience? I I have a sister. Um, my young, my youngest sister. She's one,

 

189

00:29:13.190 --> 00:29:22.900

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: two, or three Emmys, and and then she just won just this year one the South African equivalent to an Emmy

 

190

00:29:22.910 --> 00:29:37.829

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um. She's a producer for Sesame Street, and so she's the Tv land before she, and then now she's a producer. She produces Takalani Sesame, which is Sesame Street in South Africa, and and she just down plays

 

191

00:29:38.130 --> 00:29:52.039

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: her success. You it's one thing with your your friends and family, you know, friends, but with your family you should be, You know, like the people that you trust, and your your closest people, and sometimes she still downplays it, and i'm. I'm curious if there's any of the

 

192

00:29:52.050 --> 00:30:01.519

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I'm. Just not sure the difference i'm making in the world, if this is exactly where I want to be, and if there's any comparison to you know the amount I mean. Dad was,

 

193

00:30:02.110 --> 00:30:20.650

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know, did a great job in success in his business, but then also in the community. He was on every board and everybody in the you know. He made a difference in a lot of charities, and a lot of people just knew who he was. You can't really walk through the town without knowing who he is, you know. And so I wonder if that's

 

194

00:30:20.660 --> 00:30:36.999

Jamie Weiner: That'd be an interesting conversation, I think, for for us to have as as siblings. That's pretty neat. So if you ever need me to, you know, leave that conversation with your family. You know. One of the things that we really discovered is that um!

 

195

00:30:37.110 --> 00:30:41.269

Jamie Weiner: The rising gem grows up with a sense of isolation.

 

196

00:30:41.460 --> 00:30:54.250

Jamie Weiner: They don't quite understand. And so we're actually um starting to do. One year experiences called the Rise, where we're going to gather um groups of rising Jen

 

197

00:30:54.590 --> 00:31:12.479

Jamie Weiner: and Um and I use that as a broad range in terms of ages. But people with that sense of um being part of something that there's a giant, and they're sorting out who they are with. And we're doing the first one in Oxford,

 

198

00:31:12.490 --> 00:31:18.369

Jamie Weiner: because those kinds of conversations that you're talking about happening,

 

199

00:31:18.530 --> 00:31:48.340

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and um, and what your sister's doing sounds real cool, you know. I'm I'm brag on her for two seconds. She just got married, and the cast and crew in South Africa put together like a five, six minute video with all of them dancing, and you know, wishing her, you know, good luck on her marriage, and you know, with with with, you know, the muppets in the

 

200

00:31:48.350 --> 00:31:51.749

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and you know.

 

201

00:31:51.760 --> 00:32:10.809

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: One of the artists then drew a picture of her and her new husband. Um, you know it really cute, you know. They both in their forties, and neither of them had been married. Neither of them had kids and um. They found each other during Covid and uh, just super sweet. You know that that that they found all that stuff?

 

202

00:32:10.820 --> 00:32:19.830

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um, I I don't want to get back this sort of, and up bragging on my sister she that there

 

203

00:32:19.840 --> 00:32:40.850

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: love you, Andrea Um, When so now we go through this journey. You know the the kind of that questing of of these things we have the breaking moment, and then you alluded earlier to some S. E. In Remind. I don't remember exactly the words you use, but some steps are some a path forward

 

204

00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:48.680

Jamie Weiner: from there. Did I catch that right

 

205

00:32:48.830 --> 00:33:03.510

Jamie Weiner: exploration exploration as well? One probably the most important to spend some time on, and their moments, and i'm not sure everybody gets there where you really feel like you've taken agency of your own life

 

206

00:33:03.990 --> 00:33:06.070

Jamie Weiner: and um

 

207

00:33:06.540 --> 00:33:25.339

Jamie Weiner: uh and done in all kinds of ways. Okay, Clearly, for me, writing a book was like, Okay, you know. I wish my dad were here because I think he would be, You know. I think we could have different conversations that we had before he passed away, so

 

208

00:33:25.350 --> 00:33:34.090

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: just resonated with me so incredibly much. I wish my dad was here to see this,

 

209

00:33:34.260 --> 00:33:42.870

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: because I I can't tell you the amount of people that those words I've heard them before my mom or my dad

 

210

00:33:42.890 --> 00:33:58.780

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and I. I've got one in particular that i'm thinking of is a family member that I happen to. Do you know I I manage their investments. It's a older relative, and I remember looking at him and saying, You know

 

211

00:33:58.910 --> 00:34:16.570

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: my, my my grandfather was a saver as one of my uncles, and I. You know my uncle had been saving and doing a really good job in saving, and you know, and I just looked at him, and I said man popped would be so proud,

 

212

00:34:16.580 --> 00:34:27.679

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and it was almost like you, you know you could. Just you like his heart just soared, hearing those words.

 

213

00:34:28.020 --> 00:34:35.680

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And to your, you know. I think you're breaking moment, you know, when you talked about the the first story of the sun going back to the father,

 

214

00:34:36.469 --> 00:34:40.709

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: don't wait. If you have those moments,

 

215

00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:42.729

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: don't wait.

 

216

00:34:43.350 --> 00:34:49.300

Jamie Weiner: Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing a little bit about your family, because then this stuff comes alive,

 

217

00:34:49.460 --> 00:35:07.200

Jamie Weiner: and um I have stored away. Um Every sermon my father wrote. Um, I have um a photo album that traces his history from Dresden to Palestine through India.

 

218

00:35:07.210 --> 00:35:12.160

Jamie Weiner: I I have all these memorabilia for a long time. I couldn't look at them

 

219

00:35:12.290 --> 00:35:18.299

Jamie Weiner: because they were so overwhelming in terms of how big the journey was for him.

 

220

00:35:18.720 --> 00:35:27.660

Jamie Weiner: And um now one I've done something that feels like. If you were here we'd have a conversation about it,

 

221

00:35:27.930 --> 00:35:40.089

Jamie Weiner: and to now i'm really excited to go back and at least organize and have some idea what all that stuff is about. And you you're doing it in a real tangible way,

 

222

00:35:40.240 --> 00:35:41.569

Jamie Weiner: I mean.

 

223

00:35:41.860 --> 00:35:49.850

Jamie Weiner: I I see the backdrop, you know. So um

 

224

00:35:49.890 --> 00:35:58.189

Jamie Weiner: so it's. It's very powerful, because at some point our parents continue to live inside of us

 

225

00:35:59.020 --> 00:36:01.180

Jamie Weiner: and um,

 

226

00:36:01.620 --> 00:36:11.250

Jamie Weiner: and making peace with that experience is pretty powerful.

 

227

00:36:12.220 --> 00:36:14.989

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: How do I say this? Um

 

228

00:36:16.490 --> 00:36:19.029

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: generational pull

 

229

00:36:19.410 --> 00:36:20.959

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: on

 

230

00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:23.080

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that giant

 

231

00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:37.560

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: shadow. Let me explain why me? You know It's it's pro you know it. It it's possible. And tell me if i'm you know you, if if anybody experiences before, but it's like the way that, regardless of

 

232

00:36:37.580 --> 00:36:45.529

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: regardless of the welfare, regardless of the success. There's still that I want to make my mom. I want to make my dad proud

 

233

00:36:45.670 --> 00:36:49.639

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: of who I am. I want them to see me for me,

 

234

00:36:49.890 --> 00:36:59.399

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and and then when and that the wealth just magnifies, or the success of the father or mother that's successful magnifies that even bigger

 

235

00:36:59.500 --> 00:37:04.169

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: um is that is that resonated on with you?

 

236

00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:08.200

Jamie Weiner: It sure does. Um,

 

237

00:37:09.180 --> 00:37:13.339

Jamie Weiner: you know. Um,

 

238

00:37:18.380 --> 00:37:37.479

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: J. You may mean nothing to your audience. Maybe you may have talked about Jay, so they mean something to your audio. Jay's been on the show before, so they they know, even if uh J. He was just kind of like the you know. I know he's the the godfather of all a lot of this work for many of us.

 

239

00:37:37.980 --> 00:37:54.069

Jamie Weiner: Well, yeah, so. Um, you know Jay talks about all the different kinds of wealth, and for my dad I didn't get the financial. But I got all the others, and j did the um um the intro to the book

 

240

00:37:54.490 --> 00:37:56.930

Jamie Weiner: and um

 

241

00:37:57.120 --> 00:38:10.629

Jamie Weiner: Jay, I I love the incho, cause he talks about his own experience growing up with a prominent. They have a problem with an attorney, and um recognizes,

 

242

00:38:10.640 --> 00:38:26.249

Jamie Weiner: and we all look up to J right and and um. He recognizes that he grew up in the shadow of somebody who was extremely prominent, and the power of doing that in in the introduction of the book.

 

243

00:38:26.490 --> 00:38:36.899

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And I go, What better introduction to what this books about. Yeah. And to my point. Jay's grandfather was a prominent attorney.

 

244

00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:46.320

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Yeah, so it's kind of passed on. So I guess that that's where I was wanted to ask you is

 

245

00:38:46.510 --> 00:38:49.439

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: from a parenting perspective.

 

246

00:38:50.090 --> 00:38:57.289

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: You know this to if if I have young children, or even grown children,

 

247

00:38:57.470 --> 00:39:09.929

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: if I find you know their their father today, you know the yeah I'm talking with my kids today. What are some of the conversations that I should be having with them to to make sure that they

 

248

00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:11.750

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: maybe

 

249

00:39:12.080 --> 00:39:24.330

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that the tug of war that they might be having in their heads. I can lessen that, and let them know that you know I I I really just want them to be happy and and follow their own path.

 

250

00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:39.430

Jamie Weiner: So that's a great one to talk about, because I know parents who said, do whatever you want to do, and they forget the part of acknowledging, now acknowledging that in their kids' eyes they may be seen as a giant.

 

251

00:39:39.640 --> 00:39:49.660

Jamie Weiner: And so, even though they say, do whatever you want to do, the person growing up is saying, Yeah, sure. But I gotta measure up and um,

 

252

00:39:49.670 --> 00:40:00.780

Jamie Weiner: and so I That part of the conversation is really important. The other one, and that's probably even the bigger one is allowing room for write a passage

 

253

00:40:02.080 --> 00:40:06.480

Jamie Weiner: and and allowing that next generation,

 

254

00:40:06.540 --> 00:40:10.150

Jamie Weiner: maybe even encouraging the next generation

 

255

00:40:10.340 --> 00:40:12.690

Jamie Weiner: to do some exploration.

 

256

00:40:13.910 --> 00:40:30.920

Jamie Weiner: And um, I know people now talk about gap years, and all that kind of stuff they talk about working for you and somebody else's business. It's the those are tangible manifestations of something that needs to happen inside.

 

257

00:40:32.080 --> 00:40:51.300

Jamie Weiner: And it's really that that that thing that needs to happen inside that is what's going to help transform somebody into believing that they too can um stand at them. Walk from the land to giants.

 

258

00:40:51.310 --> 00:41:08.170

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: My daughter, that um is taking a gap year this year to um, You know she's doing wants to go to medical school, and she now has um three interviews, so she probably has a pretty good shot of making it in and doing what she's doing.

 

259

00:41:08.180 --> 00:41:11.600

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: But the that process,

 

260

00:41:11.620 --> 00:41:24.959

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: the you know, the gap here is a lot for a lot of parents to take on to say really shouldn't you just like be doing your applications in your senior year and whatnot, but it's doing that That application process is ginormous.

 

261

00:41:24.970 --> 00:41:32.070

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: But what i'm what i'm watching as the parent is exactly what you just said. She's living on her own.

 

262

00:41:32.230 --> 00:41:48.680

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: She's not being covered by mom and Dad and the family. She's figuring out the expenses on her own. She's working um, and you know, having some struggle which I think you know

 

263

00:41:48.860 --> 00:41:59.030

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: a year from now we're five years from now or ten years now she'll look back. And as that was one of those defining moments for me to say, I can do this,

 

264

00:41:59.230 --> 00:42:00.649

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know,

 

265

00:42:00.790 --> 00:42:08.360

Jamie Weiner: I I think that's really powerful, because medical school, you know. Once you step on that that um

 

266

00:42:08.730 --> 00:42:20.360

Jamie Weiner: conveyor belt to become a doctor right? And it's a it's a conveyor belt, you, you know. Once you start, it just keeps going, and you going and going

 

267

00:42:20.470 --> 00:42:36.300

Jamie Weiner: um, depending on how much you specialize or what you end up doing at the end? It's It's not a Oh, boy, I could take three weeks off for a year off in the middle of you know. And so having that that moment

 

268

00:42:36.690 --> 00:42:40.059

Jamie Weiner: Um, it's pretty powerful. Yeah,

 

269

00:42:40.580 --> 00:42:57.140

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: um. What are some of the other things that you you know you found, or maybe some of the things that surprised you in this discovery process that you that you did that just really stood out that you you want to talk about.

 

270

00:42:58.240 --> 00:43:04.369

Jamie Weiner: Yeah, probably the one that popped in my head. Um! We interviewed a woman from Indonesia

 

271

00:43:04.500 --> 00:43:06.879

Jamie Weiner: Chinese family, and

 

272

00:43:06.950 --> 00:43:14.180

right now is not a great time to build. Well, from what was it? Her parents was not a good time to build wealth in China,

 

273

00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:20.990

Jamie Weiner: and so they came to Indonesia. They made money. They sent the daughter off to the States.

 

274

00:43:21.500 --> 00:43:38.670

Jamie Weiner: So all all the girl, all the all the children's daughters. So there was no son to set that role, and she goes off. She's got two instructions. One you got to get an advanced degree and two. You have to come home.

 

275

00:43:38.680 --> 00:43:41.930

Jamie Weiner: Okay, right? So she comes home,

 

276

00:43:41.970 --> 00:43:50.339

Jamie Weiner: and her. Ds business is mushroomed, and so she helps stay. I build the factory, but they don't get along all the time,

 

277

00:43:50.900 --> 00:43:58.570

Jamie Weiner: and um, you know, in in in her culture, you you're supposed to under your father.

 

278

00:43:59.700 --> 00:44:13.089

Jamie Weiner: And so one day she decides. I'm gonna go get a job. And then before her interview she s down with her, dad, and she said, you're going to be so proud of me. I'm going to be able to earn my own money,

 

279

00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:20.390

Jamie Weiner: and uh and do all that kind of stuff, and her damn looks at her, and said,

 

280

00:44:20.420 --> 00:44:23.200

Jamie Weiner: Which this through us, he said,

 

281

00:44:23.250 --> 00:44:29.069

Jamie Weiner: I don't get it. Where's my face in it. Let me go my face and it. What did he mean?

 

282

00:44:29.330 --> 00:44:33.950

Jamie Weiner: Well, he meant How in this were you honoring me?

 

283

00:44:34.160 --> 00:44:38.970

Jamie Weiner: Because you're supposed to be part of what we're craving as a family,

 

284

00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:59.320

Jamie Weiner: and more and more. What we found is that um people grow up in a world where they have more multicultural experiences. So the idea of getting a job and making money is being part of how you define your independence was foreign to him,

 

285

00:44:59.580 --> 00:45:06.389

Jamie Weiner: and that is a a a much more common phenomena,

 

286

00:45:06.610 --> 00:45:19.920

Jamie Weiner: and then um a lot of it, because we live in a global world, right? And I think it's important for the people who are raising the next generation to appreciate that we grow up in a global world.

 

287

00:45:21.190 --> 00:45:30.400

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I love that. I love that. I I I think I can't remember who wrote about it. But there was somebody else had written about that and what it was really interesting, because

 

288

00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:41.920

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I' a pretty sheltered life, you know, and most of my time in upstate New York. And so you know um

 

289

00:45:42.940 --> 00:45:52.260

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: other cultures, and how they do things like, you know, Eastern philosophy is just different than Western philosophies. And and so, you know, in dealing with

 

290

00:45:52.320 --> 00:46:07.400

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: families, and how you do things, I think you know I don't have any families from other cultures in my you know, in the work that I do right now. But we do live in A. You know, upstate. New York has many cultures

 

291

00:46:07.410 --> 00:46:18.249

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: in it, if that were ever to. If I was ever to serve another family from another culture. That's be one of the things that you know as the adviser side of it, you'd really need to look into.

 

292

00:46:18.400 --> 00:46:30.959

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: What are the standards of the culture, what you know? How are things typically done? So that at least you go in aware that the way you've done things with other families may not be the way that you need to do them for this family,

 

293

00:46:31.750 --> 00:46:50.740

Jamie Weiner: this What a great awareness! Because even I grew up in Scoki, Illinois, which you know little subur outside of Chicago. One points uh it still has a Jewish community. But now there's an Indian cultures in there, I mean there's It's more and more. We live in a world

 

294

00:46:50.750 --> 00:46:57.969

Jamie Weiner: it's multi cultural and um marriages produce,

 

295

00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:11.810

Jamie Weiner: you know, bringing people in from other cultures. Um! And how we deal with all of that, Both his advisers and his parents is part of this whole quest thing.

 

296

00:47:13.060 --> 00:47:14.239

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I love it.

 

297

00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:15.879

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um!

 

298

00:47:17.170 --> 00:47:19.719

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: So we've We've talked about the journey

 

299

00:47:20.120 --> 00:47:24.159

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: we've talked about the um

 

300

00:47:24.300 --> 00:47:31.519

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: uh come on, I I just I nested uh not the roadblock, but the breaking moments right.

 

301

00:47:31.930 --> 00:47:34.969

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: We've talked about some of the surprises that have happened.

 

302

00:47:35.490 --> 00:47:36.850

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um,

 

303

00:47:37.740 --> 00:47:46.999

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: for you know, once somebody is through that awareness, you know, through those phases, and now they have ownership.

 

304

00:47:47.040 --> 00:47:59.959

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: What's kinda What are some of the results of you know, for that rising generation, once they have ownership. What were some of the feelings, and what were some of the things that you know you saw through that,

 

305

00:48:00.540 --> 00:48:19.469

Jamie Weiner: You know there's really an important insight that comes out of that question, which is a lot of people. A lot of business families encourage the generation, but the next generation, and it can go the opposite way, but a lot of encourage them to come into the family business

 

306

00:48:20.170 --> 00:48:21.439

Jamie Weiner: um,

 

307

00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:29.040

Jamie Weiner: or in my case I struggled with whether I was going to become a rail by, or what I was going to do with my life.

 

308

00:48:29.470 --> 00:48:34.830

Jamie Weiner: Um and um, because the power of

 

309

00:48:36.120 --> 00:48:38.490

Jamie Weiner: and um

 

310

00:48:40.080 --> 00:48:44.040

Jamie Weiner: when somebody discovers who they are.

 

311

00:48:44.140 --> 00:48:46.240

Jamie Weiner: It takes agency.

 

312

00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:56.360

Jamie Weiner: Um. Everybody that we interviewed wanted to have a stronger connection with their family. They may not want it. It wanted to be part of the family business

 

313

00:48:57.380 --> 00:49:00.609

Jamie Weiner: Right? Um! But

 

314

00:49:01.710 --> 00:49:09.939

Jamie Weiner: but they wanted to bring the value back, and they wanted to bring value back to their family. They wanted to have an impact on the world.

 

315

00:49:10.260 --> 00:49:18.199

Jamie Weiner: Um impact is a big deal. We could do a whole whole whole show on impact to what impact means.

 

316

00:49:18.510 --> 00:49:19.830

Jamie Weiner: Um!

 

317

00:49:19.980 --> 00:49:25.769

Jamie Weiner: Even now we talk about impact investing. But impact is more than about investing

 

318

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:27.810

Jamie Weiner: Um

 

319

00:49:28.260 --> 00:49:30.540

Jamie Weiner: and um,

 

320

00:49:31.640 --> 00:49:41.499

Jamie Weiner: And I just think that's such an important part of what we discover. I think it's different for women. This whole chapter in the book about women.

 

321

00:49:42.130 --> 00:49:43.720

Jamie Weiner: Um!

 

322

00:49:45.470 --> 00:49:51.079

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: That you say that because

 

323

00:49:51.180 --> 00:50:05.589

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: when you know again I I the The only thing I can do is relate my journey and my family to you know what you discovered, and as you talked about it I started smiling. Because i'm like Oh,

 

324

00:50:05.600 --> 00:50:20.459

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I found out what my core purpose is. You know my core purpose is to inspire change. It's only been, you know, changes hard and difficult and not fun. It's never fun.

 

325

00:50:20.470 --> 00:50:39.180

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um, I mean it may be fun along the lines, but it's usually comes with some amount of pain, because you're going from some place to some place, and there that change process like the butterfly that you talked about in the beginning. Um! It's difficult. And so you know

 

326

00:50:39.190 --> 00:50:46.150

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: what I for me. What was really neat was anytime, you know. Once I learned that

 

327

00:50:46.180 --> 00:50:50.199

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I've determined that didn't matter where I landed

 

328

00:50:50.300 --> 00:50:53.370

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: in terms of the work that I did,

 

329

00:50:54.080 --> 00:51:15.269

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: because I could inspire change as an educator or as a business owner, or as a you know, family wealth advisor, or, you know, if I was working for someone else, I'd still probably be working on my core purpose if I, you know. Once I had the ownership of who I am and where I was going.

 

330

00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:17.509

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um! And it was

 

331

00:51:17.790 --> 00:51:31.959

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: super helpful. And so I you know, if if your process you know, or as your process. And you're having these discussions to help people figure out. You know. What do they value, and what is their purpose?

 

332

00:51:31.970 --> 00:51:38.660

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um! To help them through that journey and have those discussions, Man, What powerful work That is

 

333

00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:46.510

Jamie Weiner: absolutely. And I understand that on a very personal level, because um,

 

334

00:51:47.110 --> 00:52:05.120

Jamie Weiner: you you know when you're younger you think it's all about picking what you're going to do, what your job is going to be, what you're going to do with your life. Well, it it is, but it's not really about what you what job you're going to choose. It's about finding the why,

 

335

00:52:05.160 --> 00:52:07.240

Jamie Weiner: that you're here about,

 

336

00:52:07.560 --> 00:52:21.519

Jamie Weiner: and then plenty of people talk about finding the why now. Um! But once you figure out the way, I also get to figure out how. But uh, you can't just sit around and think about the why.

 

337

00:52:21.640 --> 00:52:28.439

Jamie Weiner: But he did you right? I mean, I i'm at an age that most people retire.

 

338

00:52:29.070 --> 00:52:47.069

Jamie Weiner: What is that. What do you do when you retire? And uh and so um they learn how to play golf. I have to do something with my life and my part of my journey fits in with who I am

 

339

00:52:47.120 --> 00:52:50.720

Jamie Weiner: and um, it's about wanting to make a difference.

 

340

00:52:50.820 --> 00:52:51.740

Good,

 

341

00:52:51.750 --> 00:53:20.489

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know I I just was reading an article earlier this morning. That was all about um in the Seven ways to stave off um alzheimer's and dementia, and the one of the top ones was to always be learning something new. So you know, Retirement, I I think, is going to become more and more a thing of the past, and we're going to be tired talking about not retiring from, but retiring to. So you know, Maybe you retired from a practice one time, and now you're an author, and it's a whole. Another chapter

 

342

00:53:20.500 --> 00:53:23.419

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: in your book of life, you know

 

343

00:53:23.780 --> 00:53:37.359

Jamie Weiner: we Yeah. And I thought it would be a more relaxed. I'm working harder now than I've ever worked before. So and you would be speaking in Edinburgh all and going to London and doing all this kind of fun stuff.

 

344

00:53:37.370 --> 00:53:47.359

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I'm going. Okay, How about the ride? You know I I You know I didn't ask you. Do you have children?

 

345

00:53:48.030 --> 00:54:00.410

Jamie Weiner: I was stepped out of three and um one. I think they all like me, and it's really a lovely thing.

 

346

00:54:00.420 --> 00:54:19.150

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: The The reason I ask is, you know, is there a message that you would, you know in in this talking about journey of giants and being in the shadow. Is there a message that you, as a stepfather is, you know, would share with your kids to You know the message that you'd send to them.

 

347

00:54:19.930 --> 00:54:36.730

Jamie Weiner: Yeah, I almost forget to tell you I have my grandchildren. So it is. I'm. Now part of a multi-generational thing without any genetics involved in that, but is very cute. I have a fourteen year old granddaughter,

 

348

00:54:36.990 --> 00:54:45.109

Jamie Weiner: and over the weekend um her, and I had back to back then, he many petty's with each other,

 

349

00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:48.740

Jamie Weiner: and it was just. It was so delightful

 

350

00:54:48.990 --> 00:54:51.189

Jamie Weiner: just to be there for her,

 

351

00:54:52.090 --> 00:54:57.870

Jamie Weiner: and to hear her curiosity about me,

 

352

00:54:57.900 --> 00:55:00.819

Jamie Weiner: curiosity about the book,

 

353

00:55:01.060 --> 00:55:04.560

Jamie Weiner: but also to hear about her playing soccer

 

354

00:55:04.620 --> 00:55:07.800

Jamie Weiner: and her own.

 

355

00:55:08.790 --> 00:55:11.899

Jamie Weiner: And it's it's

 

356

00:55:12.270 --> 00:55:16.140

Jamie Weiner: is allowing that space for those special moments.

 

357

00:55:16.190 --> 00:55:22.720

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I love it. You You use the word curious, which I think is the most powerful

 

358

00:55:22.890 --> 00:55:28.499

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that is overlooked in my opinion that I've learned through the last few years.

 

359

00:55:28.700 --> 00:55:30.730

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Learn to get curious.

 

360

00:55:30.920 --> 00:55:59.989

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Get curious about your spouse and what she's saying, or he's saying, Get curious about your grandchildren about your children and ask the questions that show that you care right? And that probably. Yeah, I can. I can imagine, if you know where we're asking, Why does that matter? Why is that important to you, or what did you learn from that? And And we got curious about these things? It probably gives that space for the growth, and that they're going through in the

 

361

00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:01.789

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: in their journey

 

362

00:56:01.830 --> 00:56:10.300

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: in your shadow. I mean. Think about that your grandchildren could be sitting there, saying, You know, my my my grandfather wrote a book,

 

363

00:56:10.310 --> 00:56:25.399

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: How how, how do I live up to somebody? And so that that that journey of being curious and and thinking through, you know, good questions, and just

 

364

00:56:26.310 --> 00:56:41.640

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: being there for them like you said, being with them. Go, do a manny petty with your allow. Allow for that to happen. I love that. Um, I, Jamie, I I just want to say thank you.

 

365

00:56:41.650 --> 00:56:53.029

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um, This has been awesome. Your The the quest for legitimacy is available on Amazon and all of the other spaces out there. Um, you know that you can purchase a book?

 

366

00:56:53.040 --> 00:57:17.079

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um! And then you know. I know that you and Russ are also doing some talk so like if you're listening this and you want, you know, wanted to have a more in depth, conversation, or to have Russ and Jamie, or either one or the other, to lead a discussion for your family, or for your business, or whatever the the case may be of what some of the family business centers might be interested.

 

367

00:57:17.090 --> 00:57:29.070

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um, the you go out to their website. I think it's um the quest for legitimacy. Dot com is the website to be able to find Jamie and Russ in these conversations.

 

368

00:57:29.900 --> 00:57:31.779

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Thank you so much for your time.

 

369

00:57:32.310 --> 00:57:53.430

Jamie Weiner: God. This has been a treat. I got to learn about you out there and not just talk about me, which is always a beautiful thing. So thank you for the opportunity,

 

370

00:57:53.440 --> 00:58:10.999

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and i'm vulnerable, and I've made lots of mistakes, and I've done some good things. And so the only thing I have is the experience that I went through with my family, and it's probably one of the things that drives me most is that I made mistakes as a parent. I make mistakes as a son,

 

371

00:58:11.010 --> 00:58:20.600

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know I watched mistakes being made in the family. But there's also, if you look at the scale of justice, so to speak, there's way more good that has happened

 

372

00:58:20.680 --> 00:58:39.349

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: through all those things. But I definitely want to make sure that you know all the bad stuff that as much as I can to the degree that I can. I want to let my kids know that there were some things that you know. You don't have to do it that way. There's a better way of doing it. And, as Jay says,

 

373

00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:53.790

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I want to be an elder, not an older. And so you know I will always be learning, and I will always be curious. Um!

 

374

00:58:53.800 --> 00:59:10.070

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And uh, it's not my place to determine their journey right. And so this conversation for me just has been super awesome because I I can't I? I have not read the book yet. I'm going to read the book so that I can take the experiences that you've had from these other

 

375

00:59:10.080 --> 00:59:17.540

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: families, and be able to apply it to my own family, and how we do things, and then, obviously, the families that we serve,

 

376

00:59:17.940 --> 00:59:35.030

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and you understand both the balance between financial wealth and it's about a lot more than that. It's a beautiful lesson.

 

377

00:59:35.090 --> 00:59:43.100

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: If we really, at the end of the day you've got three things. You have your physical wealth, your assets right

 

378

00:59:43.110 --> 01:00:04.280

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you've got your values, and how you live your life. And then you've got the knowledge of how you put all of that stuff together, and I and i'm sure there's some people would, you know, Throw in where's the relationships? And there was the social and all those things. But if you just looked at it as three assets that we carry inside of ourselves knowledge values, and you know financial as well.

 

379

01:00:04.370 --> 01:00:06.579

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: If you could only pick two

 

380

01:00:06.920 --> 01:00:10.339

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: to give to your children, which two are you giving them?

 

381

01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:15.919

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And I would say, You know, way over ninety percent say, Well, I'm giving them my values and knowledge.

 

382

01:00:16.160 --> 01:00:27.199

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: But where do we put our financial assets? We always spend our time and our money on the financial assets, and how we're going to move those over to the kids,

 

383

01:00:27.210 --> 01:00:38.179

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and we really should be taking some time and some money to invest in. How are we transitioning the knowledge and the values? And we should be investing in those things, since that's what's really important to all of us.

 

384

01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:47.149

Jamie Weiner: We could talk a lot more about that. But you just said a mouthful and and and thank you for the gift.

 

385

01:00:47.160 --> 01:01:04.009

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Yeah, Jamie, you have been. I'm so glad that we did this. I'm: so glad to share this with the world. Everybody grab a copy of the quest for legitimacy and um enjoy Jamie Jamie Winger. I really appreciate your time today.

 

386

01:01:04.020 --> 01:01:15.810

Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Um! My name is Michael Columbus. This has been the family biz Show I'm in Rochester, New York with family wealth and legacy, and we can't wait to have you listen in on the next episode. Have a great day, Everybody.

If you’re a family business or a family business consultant and want to be on the show, share your story and help other family businesses, send us an email to producer@thefamilybizshow.com or fill out a contact form here!

*not affiliated with Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp.

Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances.

CRN-5668441-050423