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Episode 84: Injecting Humanity into The Employee Experience

In this episode of the Family Business Show, host Michael Columbus welcomed back Joey Coleman, an expert on customer and employee experience. The conversation explored the intricate connection between customer and employee satisfaction, especially in the context of a family-owned business. Coleman, known for his insights on never losing a customer, delved into how these principles apply to employee retention.

Joey emphasized the importance of understanding the employee journey, breaking it down into eight distinct phases, from the assessment stage to becoming a raving fan. He underscored the idea that happier employees lead to happier customers, highlighting the reciprocal relationship between employee and customer satisfaction. The discussion included practical advice on improving each stage of the employee experience, advocating for a human-centered approach to engage employees more effectively.

Coleman provided valuable insights into the nuances of remote work and how businesses can foster a sense of belonging and connection among dispersed teams. He shared innovative strategies, like the thoughtful gesture from Budai Media, which sends new employees a coffee mug featuring pictures of their coworkers to create a sense of team unity from day one.

Throughout the conversation, Coleman and Columbus explored the significance of empathy, communication, and continuous improvement in nurturing a positive and productive work environment. The episode concluded with a reminder that the journey of enhancing the employee experience is ongoing, emphasizing the need for businesses to adapt and evolve to meet the changing needs of their workforce.

Watch the entire episode!

Episode 84 Transcript


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I hit record.

 

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Joey Coleman: but welcome everybody to the family business show. I am your host, Michael Columbus, with family wealth and legacy, and Rochester, New York, and we have a return guest for you. Joey Coleman. How are you, Buddy? I'm great, Michael. Thank you so much for inviting me back, and thanks to everybody who's kind enough to be listening in. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I'm sure I'm going to enjoy it with Michael.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: So you and I met and we talked about how to never lose a customer again. And and that was awesome. That was right. Here when we started this podcast 2, 3 years ago, I want to say, and you know, I for me, the thing that was just really interesting was.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: How does somebody with your background end up in doing what you're doing. And then not only did you do it, you know, it's like, Okay, let's not talk about Christmas. Let's also talk about employees. Your you know what I love about this is I was just. I was listening to Brene Brown recently, and this is a it's not

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: either, or and that's what the one of the things I just want to start with is that you know I'm a father and a husband. I'm I'm a wealth advisor and a business coach, and so

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: to take the expertise around what you did around the customer journey and the customer experience so that somebody would never lose a customer again, especially after what we went through with Covid. And this you know, all of the things that are going on the quiet quitting, and you know the things that are happening, the lack of engagement for you to take that knowledge and say, you know what. Let me take this to the employee. Experience heads off to you. I love. Well, well, thank you, Michael. I so appreciate that. Yeah, you know, it's interesting.

 

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I think some folks have come to me, and they've said, Joey. Wait, you're the customer experience, Guy. Now you're the employee experience, Guy, and I was like folks. I've always been in the experience, Guy, that's been the common thread that connects all of it. And what I realized 20 plus years ago, when I really started focusing and paying more attention to customer experience is that we can't create a remarkable customer experience.

 

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Joey Coleman: If we don't have remarkable employees, they're the ones that are delivering on the experience. So for what it's worth, I've always known that this was a piece of the puzzle. The thing that has been somewhat hesitant for me to dive into this before now is that in most organizations they see customer experience and employee experience is 2 totally different enterprises.

 

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Joey Coleman: Right? So customer experience is usually, maybe some marketing, mostly sales, lots of customer service and support on the employee experience side. It's the Hr. Department, and with all due respect to my friends in Hr. If Hr. Gets invited to a meeting that you're in, that's usually not good news, right? So there was this siloing or bifurcation between these 2 approaches, whereas I always knew that they were 2 sides of the same coin.

 

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Joey Coleman: Happier employees means happier customers.

 

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Joey Coleman: Frustrated customers means frustrated employees. They're literally 2 sides of the same coin. If you polish one, the other side increases in its value as well. And so that's really the genesis behind devoting a book and a conversation in keynotes and consulting specifically to the employee side of the equation and basically leaving it up to the business leaders to say, Do you want to focus on the customer experience or the employee. Experience first

 

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doesn't matter because we're going to have to get to both of them.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Love it, you know. I I would say I have been working with we with with business owners for a bunch of years. Now we've interviewed over 70 business owners, Ceos, over the last 1218 months, and at the end of the day the

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: the what we've learned was that it's they're not in the business they think they're in.

 

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Joey Coleman: They think they're in manufacturing. They think they're in roofing or food, or whatever. But they're all in the people business, Michael. So true, so true, you know, when you alluded earlier to the whirlwind of insanity. That was the last few years with the Covid pandemic, and I think if anyone didn't believe they were in the business of people before. Covid.

 

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Joey Coleman: How do you have a doubt

 

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Joey Coleman: after Covid, that you're not in that bit like it it? And and if folks disagree with this, please reach out. I'd actually, genuinely love to have this conversation, because at the end of the day, how your people feel about you

 

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Joey Coleman: is what matters most whether those people are your customers or your employees. It's those interactions that personal and emotional connection. And at the time we're recording this. We're at a point in human history where our desire for personal and emotional connection has never been greater. As human beings. We have friends quote unquote friends on social media that are all over the world. But we have higher degrees of loneliness

 

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Joey Coleman: and despair in depression that in any other time in recorded human history. We used to work for an employer who most likely had their headquarters within 30 miles of our house.

 

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Joey Coleman: Now, if you work for an employer whose headquarters is within 30 miles of your house. It tells me one of a couple of things. Either you're in a very hands on industry, or you work for a very small business that has kind of a retail footprint.

 

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Joey Coleman: or

 

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Joey Coleman: you have a skill set, that it's just a matter of time before you lose your job to someone who doesn't work within 30 miles of headquarters that will be able to do it faster, more efficiently at a different pay rate, etc.

 

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Joey Coleman: So we're at a very tumultuous time right now, where all the rules for employee experience and employee engagement that we've known for decades, if not a century have been flipped on their head. And we're trying to figure it out as we go.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Yeah. And it's I try to remind myself on a regular basis about the fact that the first word in the name of our business is family. And so anytime I start thinking about things from a standpoint of.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know, profit and loss. And you know, revenue it's like, wait a minute. Let's think about these people's family. I have a family an employee right now, whose house got on fire 2 weeks ago. She's only been able to what she's fine families fine. The house will be fine, but you know she's only been able to work like 3, 4 h in the last 2 weeks.

 

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Joey Coleman: He just got to help, and he just got to be there for and do that because it'll be appreciated, and that will pay dividends. Oh, my goodness, Michael, so true! I mean, I have not met a human being that hasn't seen tremendous return on investment

 

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Joey Coleman: when caring about another human being. Right now I recognize that sometimes we pour a lot of carry in, and we don't feel that the returned care is commensurate with what we've put out.

 

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Joey Coleman: but I like to think that everyone has had a situation in their life where someone showed them a little extra care and grace when maybe they didn't deserve it, or when maybe they really needed it. And I think our opportunity, our potential to do that with others, whether that's in an employee context or just in a walking down the road, seeing someone contacts has never been richer and broader than it is right now.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Awesome. So let's talk about the book.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: so we're never, never lose an employee again.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And this side of there you talk about an employee going through 8 different phases of experience?

 

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Joey Coleman: What does that look like talking? Let's let's map that out for people so they can kind of visualize this.

 

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Joey Coleman: You're a prospective employee

 

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Joey Coleman: we bring in and interview you. We hire you, and then you work here until you quit, retire, or fired.

 

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Joey Coleman: and pretty short and sweet. What I wanted to do is actually dissect the employee, experience into a series of steps

 

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Joey Coleman: to number one, make it easier for us to plan and strategize and build our interactions in our communications with our employees. But more importantly, to recognize the emotional and mental journey that accompanies the more physical journey of being an employee. And so what we've done is identify 8 key phases in the employee attorney. Now I'll tell you, Michael. They all start with the letter A, and that isn't to confuse people.

 

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but rather to think of it as if you get each step in this process right? It's like getting stray days on your report card from the teacher or from your employees. Right? They say, hey, you did a great job at every step of the way. So let me, if I may, with your permission, give a brief overview of each of the 8 phases, and then we can dive into whichever one sound most interesting. The first phase is the assess phase

 

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Joey Coleman: in the assessed phase, a prospective employee is trying to decide whether or not they want to come work with you. They're looking at your job, listing your job descriptions. They're checking out the career page on your website. They might be reviewing reading reviews on glass door. They're talking to other people. They know they're checking out your social media profiles. They're getting a feel. They apply for the position they go through your interview process. This is kind of the

 

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Joey Coleman: recording of, am I going to become an employee? Am I going to be selected? We then move to phase 2, the accept phase.

 

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Joey Coleman: 2 things happen in the accept phase number one. The employer accepts that this is the person they want. They say we've looked at the couple of candidates you're the one we want. They make a formal job offer. If we're lucky that candidate accepts our offer and transitions from being a prospect to being an employee. We then come to the third phase, Michael, and I gotta tell you this is a phase where a lot of organizations miss huge

 

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Joey Coleman: opportunities. This is the a firm phase. Now, you might be familiar in a customer context, but the phrase buyers remorse.

 

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Joey Coleman: allow me to introduce our listeners to a new phrase, you might not as be as familiar with new hires remorse.

 

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Joey Coleman: The research shows that a new hire experiences this same chemical reactions in the brain and emotional reactions in the heart of a brand new customer, in that they begin to doubt the decision they just made to accept your offer, and if you doubt the validity of that statement, I ask you just to think about a time in your own career when you applied for a job, and maybe you are applying for more than one job at a time.

 

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Joey Coleman: and you heard an offer from one. But you hadn't heard back from the other ones. And now you feel like you're on the gun. You're trying to get the other people that are outstanding to make a decision. So maybe you can get them to negotiate against themselves. And what often happens is we have to accept that first offer with incomplete information, because we're not sure about the other positions we were interviewing for.

 

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Joey Coleman: And so what do we do? We doubt our own decision? Or if you're not interviewing for other places, and you get into the interview or negotiation process after an offer has been made and you finally allied on. This is the package I'm going to agree to.

 

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Joey Coleman: Most people are wondering. Should I have asked for more? Could I have got more vacation? Could I have gotten a higher salary? Did I really negotiate and get everything I could up. So we're in this state. We haven't even had the first day on the job, and we are feeling tenuous about our relationship with the employer. We then come to phase for the activate phase. The activate phase is the only phase in the 8 phases that is limited to one day on the calendar.

 

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Joey Coleman: and that day is the first day on the job when you show up at work. What is that experience like? And I like to think about in the activate phase that famous song by the country music icon bonnie rate, where she says, Give him something to talk about. At the end of the day when your employee goes home, when they open the door to their spouse, their significant other, their children, their family, or they're driving home, and they call their roommate or their parents? And they what is the first question they're going to be asked.

 

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Joey Coleman: how was the first day on the job?

 

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Joey Coleman: How are your employees gonna answer that if you hear nothing else in this podcast but that question. And you think about, how can we make sure that our employees on the first day on the job that we've given them something to talk about.

 

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Joey Coleman: Your employee. Experience will be better. We then come to the acclimate phase 5, right? We're halfway through the phases, and we've just had the first day on the job. But the acclimate phase is where things really slow down

 

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Joey Coleman: and where things often get missed. because while I'm sure there is someone at your organization that to some degree is paying attention to the new employees first day on the job.

 

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who at your company is responsible for day 2

 

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Joey Coleman: and day 4 and day, 10 and day, 30 and day 50,

 

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Joey Coleman: and carrying that out throughout their entire career.

 

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In most organizations there isn't a single person responsible for that. In the acclimate phase, our new employees becoming used to our way of doing business. Our communication styles, our cadence of interactions, the various people we work with, our roles and responsibilities.

 

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Joey Coleman: You have to hold the hand of your new employee while they acclimate to this new environment. If you do that well, you reach the next phase, phase 6. The accomplished phase, when the employee achieves the goal they originally had when they decided to do business with you. Every employee

 

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Joey Coleman: has a vision of what it will be like to work for you. Are we delivering on that mission?

 

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Joey Coleman: It may be a promotion. It may be a certain pay period, or pay, raise or pay level if you will. It may be a certain type of work they're doing, or responsibility or autonomy.

 

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Joey Coleman: If we're not tracking and paying attention to that, and then celebrating with the employee when they achieve it. We have no hope of getting them to the last 2 phases. Face 7. The adopt phase when they become loyal to us and only us. They're not going anywhere else. They're not picking up the call from the head hunter or the recruiter and phase 8. The final phase, when they become a raving fan, singing our praises far and wide, writing reviews on glass door, recruiting their friends for open positions. These are the 8 phases.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and we've got to hold our employees hands through each phase as they transition to the next one, if we hope to have long term engaged and retained employees.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: So for them. You know the the The Adel and trust barometer says that family owned businesses have a smidge higher trust

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: than the non family owned businesses. What I would say, is to take and keep that trust, and employees feel the same way in order to keep that trust you best be getting them through these phases and be thinking about these things as you're doing it, so that you can keep that high level of trust that the non family owned. Businesses don't have

 

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Joey Coleman: Michael. It's so true. And here's the interesting thing, especially for family owned businesses. Lots of times someone comes into the family owned business, and eventually there's going to be a transition to their running the business right? Not always, but often, as we navigate through the various roles in an organization as an employee. Every time we get promoted

 

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Joey Coleman: we go back to the beginning. Well, wait a second, folks. I'm already an adopter. I'm loyal. Don't I just stay in the doctor. No, no, no! We go back to the first day on the new job with the new title. What the New Roles Responsibilities. We have a whole new acclimate phase which often requires unlearning some of the things we learned, and or relearning them from a different perspective or point of view. And so to think that we're done

 

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Joey Coleman: at any point in this journey is a mistake.

 

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Joey Coleman: because I would positive, even when the person retires or the leaves, we still want them to be an advocate.

 

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Joey Coleman: We still need to be in relationship with them. So many employers take a burn the boats mentality when somebody leaves, they're like, oh, they're gone! Forget about it! We'll never speak of them again.

 

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Joey Coleman: and it's like, No, you want people in the marketplace saying, Oh, my gosh! The best place I ever worked was Acme Corp. I know I'm somewhere else now, but all that place was amazing. You want them talking about it, or or even saying, you know, for a first time job right out of school. They're amazing. They give great training. You're probably not going to be there your whole career. But for your first 3, 4, 5 years, that's foundational.

 

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Joey Coleman: We all know there are businesses that have that reputation, that reputation of being really good on training really good on networking, really good on building your skill sets, whatever it may be.

 

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Joey Coleman: What kind of business do you want to be known for in the marketplace, as it relates to the employee experience. I understand how you want to be known for your brand promise and what you do in terms of the products and the services you provide. But if we were to gather all the employees in your community

 

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Joey Coleman: and say your company's name.

 

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Joey Coleman: what would people say? What have they heard about you? Who do they know who works with you? What is the experience? Been like of those who have

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: love it? Love it, and we. We happen to be lucky. In the Rochester New York area. We have Wetman's food markets number 3 on the employee. Satisfaction employ, you know, and

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: charts.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and I had several of our kids work for wegmans.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and one of the things that was there, you know their attributes was, if you wanted one shift.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: or you wanted 20 shifts. You just signed up for it, and as long as you had been through training and done those things, the you know the the kids could come home from college and be like, I want to pick up a couple of extra shifts, but I'm on break. I don't want to be, you know, all in for too many hours, and they were like done. And so, you know, they could bring these train people in. They were ready to go, and they made it easy on them. They didn't have to go looking for something when they were on break.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Just one little, Attribute that they did for the employees to make their lives better.

 

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Joey Coleman: But Wetman's also made their own life better. With this model

 

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Joey Coleman: they had a cadre of trained, ready employees that they could call on in a moment's notice. If they know it's going to be a high season, they could reach out to people and say, Hey, want to pick up a day, a shift here or there, and what they recognized it sounds like early on, and clearly continuing is that flexibility of employment

 

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Joey Coleman: is increasingly the number. One thing that employees are looking for. If you want to stand out in the marketplace.

 

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Joey Coleman: be flexible in terms of what employment means for you. Now let me be clear, because a lot of folks listen to this, Michael. They're gonna get anxious. They're gonna be like, oh, Joey talking like those millennials. They just want to come and go as they want. No, what I'm saying is.

 

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Joey Coleman: treat humans like humans recognize that they have other things going on in their life. You know the best employers in the world have come to the understanding and the conclusion

 

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Joey Coleman: that paying attention to what happens between 5 Pm. And 9 am. In your employee's life is just as important, if not more so, than paying attention to what happens between 9 Am. And 5 pm.

 

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For those of you that aren't getting this statement. What I mean is, you got to care about their life outside of their status as an employee. As you said earlier. It's the Brene Brown. Yes, and

 

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Joey Coleman: you're a father and a husband. You're a worker and an owner. You're you're playing multiple roles. And so, as we embrace this whole idea that oh, well, there's work. And then there's personal

 

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Joey Coleman: that was foolish when people said it before

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: now, it's dangerous

 

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Joey Coleman: because to keep living under this delusion that we're 2 separate people goes back to those silos and that bifurcation I talked about in the beginning. It's all connected folks. It's all the same ecosystem. It's all the same humans. It's just a question of whether we're going to pay attention to it or not.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: It. It's an exciting time, because there's going to be.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know. The haves and the have not have nots. The haves will, you know, have made the changes, they will have looked at things differently. They will have realized that they're, you know, our employees that have lives outside of what they're doing, and then there will be. They have nots right totally.

 

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Joey Coleman: and the kicker is we can. We can take a stopwatch and time how long those businesses are going to be around because the the horses left the barn. It's over. I understand that some of the people listening, maybe saying, but, Joey, I just want it to go back to the way it was in 2,019.

 

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Joey Coleman: I get it, I understand, and I empathize with that desire. It's not going to happen. It's just not going to happen. It's okay for you to want that for a bit. But now you gotta get over it. You gotta recognize we're living in a new world and adjust your business accordingly. Yeah. Company that I was coaching this morning. they were working on their

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: B hag statement. They're big, hairy, audacious goal. And they're a company that's all about helping employers help their employees become more emotionally intelligent and re in order to reduce stress outside of and at work, and their behead was 10 million leaders that they've impacted within the businesses and the employees

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: within 30 or within 20 years. And I'm like, that's really really cool. But you know, if you think about that.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: there wasn't a company 5 years ago

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: that was probably thinking about those things. So to your point. You know, Pandora is out of the box. It's time to start thinking differently. And here's, you know, a group of guys, you know, and women that just said, you know what we can do this differently, and we have some things that we can help with them

 

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Joey Coleman: so true and isn't increasing. The Eq. The emotional intelligence of our peers, and our coworkers, and our colleagues, and our friends and our family.

 

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Joey Coleman: Shouldn't that be the primary goal we all have? I don't know about you, but you know IQ. Is useful.

 

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Joey Coleman: Eq. Is necessary. If you don't have Eq. You're done.

 

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Joey Coleman: you're done. Everybody talks about Chat Gbt. And AI's, and all the things that are changing, and it's an exciting time to be alive. It's a scary time to be alive, but it's also an exciting time to be alive.

 

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Joey Coleman: What almost all of the AI experts will tell you

 

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is that the thing they're not sure they are going to be able to teach

 

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Joey Coleman: or embed in the AI or have the Ais teach themselves is empathy.

 

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Joey Coleman: It's emotional understanding and connection. Now I would pause it, Michael, respectfully, that most humans aren't doing a good job of teaching empathy or practicing empathy. But

 

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Joey Coleman: we know that's what we need to do to move forward. You know, I do an exercise sometimes with my boys when we're driving. I've got 2 little boys a 7 year old and a 9 year old. We'll be driving to school in a car will cut us off.

 

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Joey Coleman: Maybe I have to slam on the brakes now. if you're like me, folks listening in a number of words that are not appropriate for young ears often come to mind, at least for me, in this scenario. But what I tried to do is ask.

 

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Joey Coleman: what could be going on.

 

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Joey Coleman: So I'll say to my boys, Hey, what do we think could be going on in that car? And they might say, they're not paying attention. Okay, yes, what else? They didn't look in their rear view, Mayor. Yes, what else?

 

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Joey Coleman: And then my youngest chimed in one day, and he said, maybe they are on their way to the hospital.

 

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Joey Coleman: I said. that's interesting.

 

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Joey Coleman: What and what might they be thinking? Well, they might be more focused on getting there fast than paying attention to the other cars on the road. And if we just took a millisecond

 

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Joey Coleman: to not presume the worst of our fellow humans to not presume that everything that is being done in the world is being done to us, instead of being done for us to recognize that other people have stuff going on there in their lives that we're not even aware of. I mean, Michael, you mentioned the person in your office who suffered the fire in their home. I mean.

 

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Joey Coleman: I'd be willing to bet

 

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Joey Coleman: that there are interactions happening in her lives where people might be like. Oh, she potentially seems a little short or a little afraid, or a little unfocused today, or whatever

 

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Joey Coleman: just going through her day to day life not in her work with you, but you know, at the grocery store reading it a stoplight when somebody is laying on the horn because the light just a millisecond ago turned to green, and they didn't stomp on the gas like they were an Indie car driver. It's like there might be other things going on in people's lives.

 

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Joey Coleman: and the more we as employers

 

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Joey Coleman: and as co-workers and frankly as humans.

 

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Joey Coleman: recognize that

 

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Joey Coleman: the better our life experiences, not only in terms of how we interact with others, but in how we interact with ourselves. And if we give ourselves a little more grace when we recognize that we don't have to be on all the time. We don't need to be performing at quote unquote, perfect, optimized, and maximally efficient levels every minute of the waking day.

 

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Joey Coleman: It's okay to be human.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I love that and it. And I wanna so how could? If I'm an employer running a family business I like.

 

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Joey Coleman: how do I take that temperature? How do I find out without being intrusive, so to speak, and you know how they are doing things.

 

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Joey Coleman: A lot of times people will say to me, Joey, I'm anxious about prying into my people's personal lives. I'm anxious into seeming like a stalker, you know, or or bugging them too much.

 

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Joey Coleman: The best advice I can give lies under the umbrella. This principle of reciprocity, the principle of reciprocity tells us, when interacting with other human beings, that when we give

 

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Joey Coleman: someone feels compelled to give back. Okay. so the secret here leaders is, you go first.

 

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You talk about your life.

 

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Joey Coleman: you share your challenges. You come in and you say, Hey, everybody! How is your weekend? You know I actually got the chance to just sit in the backyard and read a little bit.

 

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Joey Coleman: It's been a crazy week last week, and I just realized that I needed some time to decompress and just kind of put my feet up and and read the paper. And yeah, the lawn didn't get mode, and it probably should have. And yeah, the garage didn't get painted, and it probably could have.

 

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Joey Coleman: And yeah, the basement didn't get organized, and it probably might. Well, now, that's never getting organized. But you know I had a good weekend. How about you? What you do?

 

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Joey Coleman: See what I did there is, I went first. I made it okay to be vulnerable. I made it okay to share some things that were not again optimized for productivity. They were not optimized for accomplishments and efficiency.

 

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Joey Coleman: When we go first, it changes the conversation

 

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Joey Coleman: the other way. I think employers can do this is to set a standard within your culture.

 

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Joey Coleman: around communicating openly and honestly.

 

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Joey Coleman: You know one of the companies that I profile in the book. There's over 50 case studies in the book one of the companies is called impact. And what impact does is they send all of their employees to books

 

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Joey Coleman: between the time they get hired, and the time they start their first day on the job. During that a firm stage that new hires remorse stage we talked about, and one of the books is radical candor

 

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Joey Coleman: and the principle of this book. It's wonderful book. If you get the chance to read it. The principle behind this book is, we need to get better at being honest. We need to get better at giving feedback.

 

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Joey Coleman: and the assignment for the first week on the job is to read that book

 

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Joey Coleman: so like you go to the office and you're sitting in your office reading.

 

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Joey Coleman: Now. Some people look at that. They're like Joey. Reading is the first assignment at work. Yeah, because that's how key and important and foundational the principles in those books are to the culture of communication that they've established it impact.

 

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Joey Coleman: So if you're listening in, you might be asking yourself what are the things that are key and foundational in your organization that your people need to know. And how are you teaching that? How are you exhibiting that? How are you leaning into those conversations in a way that make it seem like the norm from day one on the job, or maybe even before day, one on the job.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: That's awesome. Yeah. When we were thinking about that, I love leaders go first when we're talking about being vulnerable. Right? That's because that's really what we're doing. And then the the reverse rule is when we're asking for employees, opinions on where we're going and what we're doing. Leaders go last so that

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: so that they don't suck the air out of their own, because as soon as you give your idea as the leader, everybody said, Oh, yeah, what you said, where you you're missing getting that valuable input, by voicing your opinions first. So there's there's a good time to go first. Vulnerability. You're asking for somebody to do something uncomfortable, maybe to share and to go last when you're looking for, how do we make things better when we're looking for ideas? And you know.

 

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Joey Coleman: innovation love it. That's Michael Michael. That is so true. And, in fact, what I try to use in my own internal compass I don't know if this will be useful to anyone is anytime. I'm in a situation where I think. I've got something to say.

 

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Joey Coleman: I try to bite my tongue and wait a minute anytime. I'm in a situation where I think

 

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Joey Coleman: oh, I really don't want to get into this. I don't. I don't want to share. First

 

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Joey Coleman: I try to propel myself forward.

 

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Joey Coleman: And it's that same theory right check in with how you're feeling.

 

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Joey Coleman: If you feel the need to pontificate and share your id and perspective. That's fine. You're not going to forget it. I promise you you will remembered in 10 min after everybody else talks. You're gonna be fine if you're not sure. Jot a couple of notes down, write it down and refresh your recollection later. What I want to do is be in a situation where, when someone is expressed vulnerability

 

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Joey Coleman: that you match vulnerability, or where an opportunity for honesty is presented to itself. You speak to that the way we

 

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Joey Coleman: remove the stigma

 

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Joey Coleman: that exist in the workplace around mental health, around hours work around. What's appropriate or not appropriate about work versus personal is not to codify rules. It's not to come up with a playbook and a handbook that details. These are the topics that can be discussed. And these are the topics that can't know. It's to create the environment where we can talk about things that are hard to talk about, because we've established some ground rules.

 

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Joey Coleman: You know. I saw in the interview you mentioned Brene Brown earlier. I saw an interview recently that she did with Tim Ferris on his Podcast and she was talking about her relationship with her husband, and that it they come home at the end of the night, and they say.

 

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Joey Coleman: what percentage they're at.

 

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Joey Coleman: So she might come home and say, I'm at a 20 out of 100,

 

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Joey Coleman: and her husband will say, Don't worry. I got you. I got I can. I can pull the other 80,

 

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Joey Coleman: and we'll get us to a hundred. And she said. There are times where he comes home, and he's like, Hey, I'm at like a 15, and she's like, Don't worry. I got you. I got the other 85 tonight.

 

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Joey Coleman: But what was beautiful about this interview, Michael is, she said. Every once in a while I'll come home, and I'll say I'm into 20, and he'll say. all I've got is 10.

 

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Joey Coleman: And she said, everything stops

 

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Joey Coleman: and we sit down at the table and we talk about how are we going to interact in the next 24 h

 

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Joey Coleman: to be kind to each other.

 

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Joey Coleman: Because, see, this is the time when we know it's going to be really easy to be unkind. This is the time when we know it's going to be easy to be short with someone, or hypercritical, or be hysterical and historical by bringing up something that's old that has nothing to do with the conversation we're right in and raming it well. Remember that one time in our wedding, 15 years ago, when your mother in law's or your mother, said Blah blah blah to mine.

 

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Joey Coleman: it's like Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Let's pump the breaks. How can we be kind in this time, and then what's great is? There are times where you might come and say, Hey.

 

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Joey Coleman: I've got 90, and the other person says, I've got 92. Well, now, you're having a hundred 80% day.

 

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Joey Coleman: Yeah, this is what we need to do with our employees as well. Where? Yeah. Check in. You haven't a good day. You haven't a bad day. How was last night? How'd you sleep? How are the kids? How's the family? What's going on what I I I work with the the last story because I really I get so excited about this up, Michael. I worked with a theater company one time out in the Berkshire, Shakespeare and Company. Amazing Shakespeare and actoring Fi Theatre Company.

 

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Joey Coleman: and they do a check in every time they have a meeting

 

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Joey Coleman: literally every time they have a meeting, and you might have 5 meetings in one day. This happens at the beginning of every meeting they check in.

 

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Joey Coleman: and they go around the circle, and they'll do something like if you were to use one word to describe how you're feeling right now. What would that word be. or on a scale of one to 10 with 10 being like I am. So looking forward to this meeting, and I'm ready to rock, and one being like I would rather be, you know, stuck in a prison somewhere, without ever having the opportunity for parole. Where are you right now?

 

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Joey Coleman: Or my favorite question they would ask. what is keeping you from being fully present in this meeting right now?

 

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Joey Coleman: And that's what we can say. my kids, home sick or my house caught on fire.

 

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Joey Coleman: or I've got 70 emails I need to respond to. And I know this meeting is 3 h. And when I come out. I'm gonna have 130 to respond to

 

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Joey Coleman: whatever it is. It just allows our humanity to come to the front of the conversation.

 

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Joey Coleman: That's how you create a remarkable business.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and so go back to your 8 phases for a second and think about

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: you know, how can we take

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: each of those phases as an owner. What we should be thinking about is, how do I take each of these phases and inject humanity

 

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Joey Coleman: into these phases? Right? So true. so true. Yeah. And and and this stuff.

 

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Joey Coleman: when we, when we look at it from that lens, the answers become quite easy. In my opinion, you know, I think, as business owners and business leaders. Often we're operating with limited and imperfect information. We're trying to make our best possible guess with the cards that we can see, knowing that there's a huge stack of cards that we can't see, and we and those are going to be played next. We have no idea. So let's look, for example, at that assess phase.

 

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that very first stage where they're kind of checking it out, trying to decide if they want to work going through your interview process. How can we bring more humanity?

 

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Joey Coleman: Well, why not let them know how long it's going to be?

 

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Joey Coleman: Why not tell a candidate, hey? From the time you apply to the time we make a decision on whether we're going to hire you is 3 weeks

 

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Joey Coleman: no longer. no shorter.

 

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Joey Coleman: It's 3 weeks, and then hold yourself to that standard. Why, when someone applies, do we not acknowledge receipt of their resume and application?

 

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Joey Coleman: So many businesses. We submit. And then what do we do? And we've been? We have been in their shoes. Almost everybody listening has been in the shoes of applying for something or putting something out there, and then wondering, did they get it? I'm not sure if they got it. Should I ask again, or would it be weird if I asked again. Better not ask again. I'm not sure. Maybe my phone isn't working. What about my email? I mean somebody to call my phone. Make sure my phone's working because I'm not exactly sure it's way

 

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Joey Coleman: our minds play all kinds of tricks on. We know this is happening with our candidates.

 

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Joey Coleman: So why aren't we more forthright? Why not say to them, hey? Our internal policy was that we wanted to have at least 3 candidates before we made a decision.

 

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Joey Coleman: We've had 2. We're waiting on a third.

 

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Joey Coleman: We're not sure who that is, but we're waiting to see. Now I understand. You may not want to say that I also understand that maybe a pretty ridiculous rule and policy to have operating in your business. But you've just shared with the person that number one. They haven't risen the level to be accepted and offered the job immediately. Number 2. You're an organization that operates based on rules and timelines. Either they're going to like that or not like that.

 

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Joey Coleman: But at least they know the criteria by which they're being evaluated. This applies in any phase.

 

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Joey Coleman: How can we make the first day more enjoyable? How can we make it more human? Well, lots of people show up for the first day of work, knowing none of their coworkers.

 

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Joey Coleman: So what are we gonna do? I got an idea. Let's walk them around the office and introduce them to everyone and overwhelm them with 50 names. No, don't do that. I understand that your instinct but let me take you in an overwhelmed, anxious state, and plow you in front of 15 people so that you can meet all of them. What? No, not a good choice.

 

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Joey Coleman: Maybe. What you do is say, hey, today we're going to be focused on having you interact with and meet with the 2 people who you're going to be working with the most tomorrow we'll introduce you to the rest of the company. But today

 

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Joey Coleman: these are the only 2 people you need to know. I'm the head of Hr. This is your direct manager. We're spending the day with you.

 

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Joey Coleman: totally different in conversation, because it's focused on humanity.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Well, that we we just brought in an intern a week and a half ago. Not even so, first day I you know, we make sure we had a I I emailed them and said, breakfast sandwich or bagel and cream cheese.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: and you know, made the breakfast sandwich for myself rather than going out and getting it. Oh, nice! And you know so it's like I I I hear what you're saying, and it it it just resonates. And it's probably because I read. You know how to never lose a customer again. And you know other things like that that I can relate to these these pieces.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: we did Zoom Meetings. We have not. All of our employees are in this in, you know, in the office. So it's like, you know what

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: meet with Alex. That's the name of the intern, for you know. 30 min, 45 min. Just tell what you do. Don't worry about asking him anything else. Just say, here's what I like about working here. Here's what I don't like to working about you. Here. You give them the ins and outs. Give them the low down, so that you know they have a little bit of a an idea of what your position is and how you interact.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: And we did that over a, you know, we we're small company. So we did that over the course of 2 days. Got him to, you know, meet with everybody, and then, just little by little, acclimate. I love that first day. I know how important that was. So that was that one little thing that I'm like I could do a little something there.

 

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Joey Coleman: How many people listening

 

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Joey Coleman: ever had their boss make them breakfast on their first day on the job.

 

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I'd be willing to bet less than 1%.

 

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Joey Coleman: But that might be the thing that he remembers. That might be the thing that he says, wow! You know this. They they really cared. Early on they they were showing me that they care, and I also love what you shared about in the conversations between the employees and the intern, the employee leading first. Here's what I do. Here's what's going on.

 

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Joey Coleman: If you go first.

 

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Joey Coleman: that opens the space. We talked about that earlier. But I also think there's such a great opportunity for everyone to be more curious than they are. Just get curious, ask better questions, ask more meaningful questions. I would say that I have the

 

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Joey Coleman: glorious opportunity to be involved in a number of great mastermind groups and networking groups of folks that are just really committed to growth and learning. And I was at several of those events this past week, and it just filled me up. I was feeling excited. Well, then, I ended up going to an event that I was.

 

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Joey Coleman: Let's put it this way. It's not a community that I'm part of I was invited to go. It felt like I needed to go, so I went.

 

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Joey Coleman: and you would not believe how much we talked about the weather.

 

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Joey Coleman: and I was just like what what is actually happening here. If I was in a meteorologist convention.

 

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Joey Coleman: happy to talk about the weather, if I'm hanging out with the folks that Noah, happy to talk about the weather.

 

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Joey Coleman: If I'm

 

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Joey Coleman: hanging out with a bunch of Randos that I just met, why are we talking about the weather. The reason we're talking about the weather is, no one wants to go first. No one wants to be vulnerable. No one wants to talk about the things that matter, because for like Oh, that doesn't feel appropriate, or that feels like it might be pushing to. But I think most people wish they were having better conversations.

 

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Joey Coleman: So it's an opportunity for us to lead into that.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Love it, love it.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: When you look at the phases and the research and the things that you've done, you know. Obviously each one of the phases somebody can get tripped up in and and

 

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Joey Coleman: not pay attention to it. But is there another one where you're like over and over? It's like, Oh, I see this like everybody seems to like, have a hard time with this, or but many people do. What? What would you point to? Yeah, I would say, Michael, the 2 phases that seem to cause the biggest problems are that a firm phase. We talked about earlier, that new hires remorse. And mainly the problem is, there is we're just not even acknowledging the face we're just moving from. Hey? You got the offer. You accepted the offer. Great see, on your start date.

 

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Joey Coleman: and it's just this quiet period, dead zone. If you do nothing but send a thank you note thanking them for accepting the job, or send a little video saying you're excited to see them on the first day a little tiny minuscule touch is going to be better than nothing. The other phase where people often just fall off the rails is that acclimate face

 

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Joey Coleman: we expect our employees to be up and running instantly. We expect them to understand our cadence. Who's who our org chart, how we're supposed to do emails, how we're supposed to prepare agendas and meetings.

 

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Joey Coleman: Folks

 

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Joey Coleman: you didn't know how to do all of that stuff on your first day on the job.

 

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Joey Coleman: and most

 

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Joey Coleman: listening. I say this respectfully. You made that up as you went along, and you made it up as you went along, probably because you made mistakes with ways you tried it, and then you refined it into better ways. One of my favorite examples of a company that does this is Ritz Carlton, and there's some bonus case studies. This one isn't actually in the book. So, Ritz Carlton, that's something really interesting on day 21. So you've been on the job for 3 weeks

 

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Joey Coleman: on day 21. They bring you into a meeting with your manager and the head manager for the entire property where you're working at.

 

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Joey Coleman: and you come into the meeting, and they say, great

 

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Joey Coleman: thanks. So much we love that you've been here for 3 weeks doing a great job question. What are we doing that? You think we're doing wrong?

 

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Joey Coleman: Where are we making mistakes? What are we doing that you think? Gosh! Why do they do it that way. What are we doing that you think? Oh, there's a better way to do that. What are we doing that you're like? Gosh!

 

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Joey Coleman: I still don't understand that, even though I've been here 3 weeks.

 

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Joey Coleman: new employees are a gold mine of perspective. They're not jaded.

 

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Joey Coleman: They haven't been bought into your cadence. They haven't adopted, though. Well, we've always done it that way. Philosophy. I love new employees

 

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Joey Coleman: because new employees in the same way that children in a new environment can do it

 

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Joey Coleman: can see the secrets.

 

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Joey Coleman: They can see the things that aren't working. They can see the things that are ripe for improvement or opportunity. You know you, I a. By listening who has children who has been around children? You know you think you've baby proof to your house. You think you're good

 

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Joey Coleman: until a baby comes over, and then you're like, Oh, my gosh, no, wait a second! No, I can't believe we left that out.

 

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Joey Coleman: and then it changes when a toddler comes over. You're like, Oh, this is a whole separate set of problems.

 

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Joey Coleman: and then an elementary level student. and then a middle schooler. and then a teenager. You're learning it each step along the way, based on the perspective of the human that's coming in, that the things you thought you would set up pretty clearly and efficiently, aren't as set up and as efficient as you thought.

 

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Joey Coleman: New employees are a gold miner perspective. Make sure you're spending the time to talk to them early on

 

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Joey Coleman: to dissect what you're doing and why you're doing it from their point of view.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: That's awesome. That makes me think as as we're going through this, you you've provided some really great usable tools and information things that I could do. Okay, any employer could do to boost. You know that employee? relationship to their you know their experience.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: How do you remember all this stuff? And how do I? You know? I mean, I'm I'm just like, if I'm somebody listening to this, I might be getting a little overwhelmed with how do you put this together?

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: What is your secret to helping people to think through all this stuff and

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: turn it into usable piece of information, and not you know what it would with the one more thing that there's how many times we start doing something. It works so well, we stop doing it. So how do I keep from that happening.

 

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Joey Coleman: Michael? Fantastic, fantastic question. Couple of things come to mind number one before we can really look at ways to improve our employee experience. we have to have a clear understanding of what it currently is.

 

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Joey Coleman: So the first thing you're gonna want to do is sit down with these 8 phases and say, what are we doing right now in this face

 

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Joey Coleman: I will tell you. I have spoken to audiences on all 7 continents. I've done workshops with crowds that range from, you know a half a dozen people to thousands of people. And here's what I know. I have yet to find an employee in any organization

 

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Joey Coleman: that can track the full employee adjourn the full employee journey accurately by themselves.

 

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Joey Coleman: There are too many hand offs that happen in an organization. There's too many different ways of doing it. There's not enough consistency enough uniformity, enough procedure and process that it's kind of all over the place. So step one, get a map of what reality is.

 

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Joey Coleman: 9 times out of 10 that map alone will be worth its weight in gold. Somebody can look at it and go. Oh, my gosh! Look at how many problems we have. Look at how we we could just fix the things that are on the map would be a year's worth of effort.

 

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Joey Coleman: But then, we say, how could we make this journey better

 

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Joey Coleman: now, when we make it better? Couple of things happen, we either take things that are currently on the map and remove them, because sometimes we're just doing too much. Send in that new employee 78 emails on their first day too much. You're choking them. Stop. Don't do that.

 

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Joey Coleman: Sometimes we have to add something in, because there's a gap. Oh, that a firm face! Nothing's happening during that new hire from worse. We need to put a contact in and other times we need to take things that are happening in one phase and move them to another phase. What do I mean by that? Most organizations have a tendency to overwhelm their employees

 

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Joey Coleman: in the first day or 2 on the job?

 

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Joey Coleman: What do you really need to know at the end of day one. Do you really need to know the set? Did details of the 7 year stock option testing policy that you don't become eligible, for until you've been at the firm for a year you don't need to know that on day one don't spend any time on that. On day one. In fact, one of the companies high profile in the book Peela does this amazing job of

 

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Joey Coleman: doing the benefits review on day 30,

 

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Joey Coleman: not on day one.

 

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Joey Coleman: because one day well, there's so much other stuff I'm dealing with. Let me get into it. Let me feel it. It's not going to make a difference whether I've made the proper election on my paycheck, withholding in the first 2 paychecks. We can come at that on day 30, and have a much better conversation about it. So get the clear map.

 

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Joey Coleman: Look at the map, figure out what you need to do going forward. And now you've got a whole list of things, and then to your point, Michael. Prioritize.

 

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Joey Coleman: Pick 2 or 3, get them in place, get them systematized, get them automated, get them codified, live with it for a while. See how it works in the real world. Great! Now go back to the list and pick 2 more things.

 

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Joey Coleman: Don't try to do all of it at once, because what it'll end up happening is you'll do none of it.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Yeah, we we we call that when we're coaching progress, not perfection. Good is good enough.

 

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Joey Coleman: absolutely. you know, in the immortal words of Cervantes, you know, it's not about the destination.

 

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Joey Coleman: Okay, the in isn't the goal. The finish line isn't the goal. The goal is the journey. And so

 

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Joey Coleman: when we adopt a philosophy internally that we're never done examining the employee experience.

 

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Joey Coleman: We're on the right track. you you you're not trying to build this, then set it on autopilot and walk away. No, this is you're constantly building the ship while you're sailing, and I know that's hard. I empathize with the fact that that is difficult to do.

 

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Joey Coleman: But guess what you're a leader. You signed up to be a leader, you accepted the job to be a leader. You started the business. You're the leader.

 

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Joey Coleman: That's the job of the leader. You have to keep moving forward. You have to be creating the progress and working on things a little bit at a time.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: I love it.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC:  In this world of you know, you and I are working remotely right now. It's a wonderful, wonderful way of doing things One of my mentor says he's in his eighties, and he goes, I love Zoom.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: He's like geography anymore. I can meet with anyone anywhere, and it just doesn't matter. I have friends in Australia. I have friends in Europe that we communicate with on a regular basis. It's so different today to share ideas with people

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: when you have remote employees, and we will all at some level, probably have remote employees. How do you? What are some ideas to like, you know? What do you do? Some special things to help them out especially. And day one is a remote employee. I couldn't even imagine.

 

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Yeah, it's

 

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Joey Coleman: you are absolutely right, Michael, that there isn't a question of whether or not you're going to have remote employees. It's a question of when

 

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Joey Coleman: some of you already have them right now most of you will have more 3 years from now than you have today.

 

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Joey Coleman: This is the world we live in again. I know it may not be what you signed up for or wanted, and if that's the case, retirement is an option. I'm just saying it's an option you can exit the business now pass it on to the next generation. Now, that's okay. If you don't want to play this game. But that's the new game. So what do you do? I think

 

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Joey Coleman: we have wonderful tools like your your friend was saying. Your client was saying. I love zoom right. We have wonderful tools for creating digital connection

 

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Joey Coleman: where I think we want to double down on our efforts in a remote world is on analog connections.

 

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Joey Coleman: So what can you do to move beyond the digital into the physical? One of the companies that I profile in the book is called Budai Media Buddha media has employ 35 employees

 

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Joey Coleman: across 17 countries.

 

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Joey Coleman: I'll let you do the math there, folks. Okay, they literally go from every time zone from Budapest

 

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Joey Coleman: to Brazil, going the long way, not the short way, the long way

 

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Joey Coleman: they're operating in all those different time zones. So they are an asynchronous operation. They don't have set business hours. People are working at different hours. They're chasing the sun.

 

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Joey Coleman: They do something really interesting. On your first day on the job you get a package. You actually get it a couple of days before your first day. And it's clearly marked. Don't open until the first day.

 

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So then you get on a zoom call with all your teammates on the first day.

 

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Joey Coleman: and everybody's talking in there. Oh, meet everybody in introduction. They say, Okay, open the package and you open the package, and in the package is a coffee mug. Now the coffee mug doesn't have the Buddha media logo on it.

 

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Joey Coleman: The cough! I the coffee mug has pictures, head shots

 

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Joey Coleman: of all of your coworkers.

 

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Joey Coleman: What a great idea. So now you have a context, and as you open the mug and you look at it.

 

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Joey Coleman: all the other coworkers lift their mugs in a toast to you.

 

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Joey Coleman: You're now part of the family. You're now part of the team. Oh, and you know what

 

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Joey Coleman: your pictures on the mug, too.

 

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Joey Coleman: Now you feel like you're a part of something now. You feel like, even though you may be separated by time, zones and oceans.

 

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Joey Coleman: You're all part of the same mission the same cause. And it's interesting. I, the CEO Daniel Boudi. When we were talking about this in our interview, you know, we said to me, you know jelly. I got to admit in the beginning. I thought about putting my logo on it, the company logo on it like, sure. That's what we should do.

 

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Joey Coleman: and then he's like I thought nobody really wants a coffee mug with the logo on it. But what they will enjoy is the coffee mug with the picture of their coworkers on it. And guess what, Michael, let's pretend that person leaves.

 

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Joey Coleman: Let's pretend something happens. They'll always have that mug. They'll always be able to look back fondly on the other people they worked with. no matter where they are, and every time they get a new employee

 

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Joey Coleman: they send new mugs.

 

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Joey Coleman: It's an investment that is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. But the return on that investment in terms of connection between their teammates absolutely incredible.

 

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Joey Coleman: You've shared a ton of valuable, valuable information. The book is out there right now. Correct. where can people get it? Yeah. So the book is available, depending on. When you're listening to this, the book comes out June 20 seventh. So the book is available. on Amazon, on Barnes and Noble. There's depending on which version of the but if the Indie bookstore you'd love to go to got a lot of our Indies, so don't forget those folks. but what I really want to share is it's available in all 3 formats of both

 

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Joey Coleman: books in the sense that there's a hard cover version, there's an ebook version, and if you've enjoyed the conversation today, and you don't mind my voice, there's an audiobook version that I narrate. So, however, you like to consume books. It's there. I hope folks will check it out. It's called, never lose an employee again. And my hope is that it will spark you to think a little bit differently about how you can be more human with your employees

 

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Joey Coleman: to create even better experiences, not just for them, but for you, for your customers for your community at large.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Joey, this has been fabulous. I really really appreciate you sharing all of this. It couldn't come at a better time. Everybody grabbed Joey's book. I really. I went red the first one. I'm looking forward to reading the second one. How to never lose a customer again is still fabulous, and I you know, I think it would be add on to this how to never lose a an employee again.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: Amazing. So, Joey Coleman. Thank you for sharing with us. My name is Michael Columbus. This has been the family, this show. I'm a family wealth and legacy in Rochester, New York, and if you've enjoyed listening this, please forward it to a friend, pass it on to somebody else, and, allow them to Enjoy this as well.

 

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Michael Palumbos ChFC, CBEC: have a great day, everybody. We'll see on the next episode.

If you’re a family business or a family business consultant and want to be on the show, share your story and help other family businesses, send us an email to producer@thefamilybizshow.com or fill out a contact form here!

*not affiliated with Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp.

Michael Palumbos is a registered representative of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Securities and investment advisory services offered through Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp., a broker/dealer (member SIPC) and registered investment advisor. Insurance offered through Lincoln affiliates and other fine companies. Family Wealth & Legacy, LLC is not an affiliate of Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. Lincoln Financial Advisors Corp. and its representatives do not provide legal or tax advice. You may want to consult a legal or tax advisor regarding any legal or tax information as it relates to your personal circumstances.

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