Transcript
Michael Palumbos (07:58.278)
Welcome everybody to the Family Biz Show. I am your host, Michael Palumbos from Family Wealth and Legacy in Rochester, New York. And today we've got a fabulous show. We have Ed Delia from Delia Associates joining us who is a
Ed Delia (07:42.903)
now.
Ed Delia (07:49.454)
The ESO 6 is the name.
Michael Palumbos (08:11.784)
second generation business owner, also runs the podcast Growing Up B2B. So he's talking to family businesses on a pretty regular basis. And we are really excited to have this conversation. So welcome Ed.
Ed Delia (08:25.954)
Thank you, Michael. It's great to be with you.
Michael Palumbos (08:28.204)
Yeah, so we do have a little bit of a, you know, the first question we always ask is how did you end up in the family business? What did the journey look like for Ed to join, you know, the family business?
Ed Delia (08:45.432)
So I have a dear friend from Dickinson College, and that's where I graduated. His name is Mike, and he was in line with me to get our diplomas. And he often reminds me that what I said to him on the way to get that diploma was, I don't know precisely what I'm going to do next, but I'll be damned if I go to work for my old man. about a month later, I'm turning down a job opportunity outside of Philadelphia.
Ed Delia (09:12.558)
to effectively go into the family business and a year later starting a buyout process with my dad to buy him out and take over DeLia Associates. So, you know, I often say if I'm adamant about one thing, you bet the ranch on the opposite, you know, because I certainly didn't see that path. But probably not unlike a lot of certainly a lot of family multi-gens that have been on my program. The exposure to the business happened really early.
Ed Delia (09:42.754)
you know, really young. And that left an impression and it certainly did for me. But yeah, did not, that was not a preordained path by any means.
Michael Palumbos (09:54.19)
Do you mind if I ask, what was your degree and what did you study?
Ed Delia (09:59.138)
Well, I was an English major. So when I got to Dickinson College, I already spoke English fairly well. So I figured that was a good track, you know, because kind of everybody wins. So I always had a passion for reading, for writing, literature, theater, the arts in general. was also well, at the time, Dickinson didn't have a minor, but I had enough credits for the equivalent of a fine arts minor too. And, you know, I attribute that to an older brother who was he was more of a fine artist. He could
Ed Delia (10:29.026)
draw anything at a very young age. So definitely left an impression. So the arts were a natural calling, I think.
Michael Palumbos (10:37.802)
Nice. And so here you end up in the family business and writing material and branding and arts all kind of fell into place exactly the way that it was supposed to, even though it might not have been obvious to you in the beginning, it was obvious to the universe that's where you're supposed to be.
Ed Delia (10:56.46)
I guess so.
Michael Palumbos (10:59.369)
Yeah, exactly. Give us a little bit of history about Talia Associates. When your father started the business, what was his impetus for starting it? What was going on? What were the services he was providing? And then we'll fast forward it to kind of today a little bit.
Ed Delia (11:18.092)
Yeah, because most certainly it was not his preordained path either. He was a naval officer and he had aspirations of being career Navy. He was stationed in Charleston, South Carolina at the time. There was a naval base back then and he was active during the Korean War and he was loving it. He loved Charleston. He loved the Navy. He loved diving. He was a diver. He was on a demolition team.
Ed Delia (11:48.594)
And then, back then, the diving suits were these big, heavy, old school suits. So he heard his back on a dive and he was out of commission for months in recovery. And it was very clear that his naval and diving days were coming to a close. So he was honorably discharged and came back to New Jersey.
Ed Delia (12:15.06)
I think the spark of Delia Associates was actually, he was a member of the Knights of Columbus. This was back in, I would say, the early 60s. He sponsored a casino night, which back then was very novel. By today's standards, that's common, but back in the early 60s, that was a novel thing. He put the whole thing together himself, promoted it, and it was one of their most highest grossing charitable events.
Ed Delia (12:44.822)
of their year. So he often, when I've spoken to him, why did you start? He's like, well, that kind of got me thinking. This whole idea of promotion was very intriguing to me. And he goes, I think I was pretty good at it. So that was really sort of his, that got his wheel in motion. And then in 64, he started Delia Associates.
Michael Palumbos (13:05.742)
That's amazing. love that. I love that it came from just, you know, he was doing some volunteer work and my grandfather was nice at Columbus, by the way. So that's very cool. And then, you know, out of thin air, you just follow this path. And here we are. that 1964, he started Delia Societies. Awesome.
Ed Delia (13:29.196)
Yes. Yep. That's
Ed Delia (13:32.107)
awesome. He started it. So before there was a segue before he worked for, if you remember, and not many people do that are younger, Yvonne products. the old Yvonne would come door to door makeup and cosmetic sales. He actually was working in the package development group at Yvonne at their research and development facility. And at the time they were tinkering with plastic formed packaging. So.
Ed Delia (13:59.681)
Um, when he started, uh, Dullea associates, lo and behold, not surprisingly, some of the early clients were in the plastics and packaging industries, cause that's what he knew. And that's the supply chain he knew. So, um, we inevitably became a B2B, you know, marketing and PR firm. And even to this day, we still have legacy clients in, um, in the plastics and packaging industries, just cause I grew up around it. He knew it. I knew it. I know it very well. And.
Ed Delia (14:26.774)
it's very easy to talk to those clients and they're always surprised like, wow, you know a lot about our world. I'm like, yeah, I kind of do. I've been going into plastics and packaging plants since I was about eight or nine years old. So yeah, I know a thing or two.
Michael Palumbos (14:42.542)
That's very cool. That's very cool. What would you say is different about Delia Associates today that maybe your father would say, what are you doing? How does that fit compared to when your dad was running the business?
Ed Delia (15:00.312)
That's a great question. So in some ways, there's, and I think this is true of a lot of multi-generational businesses, there's things that are constants, you know, that we're going to hold fast to. And then there's things that are going to evolve and they have to evolve. We are still predominantly a business to business organization. That's our clientele. And, you know, truth be told, I explored consumer facing and retail and, you know,
Ed Delia (15:29.75)
It was not to my taste. I kind of was like, you know, dad was onto something when he said that's our, you know, I think he was right. We're going to stay the course there. But I had a passion for brand and using brand as a growth accelerator and enabler of, of the B2B organization. Whereas, you know, my, my father was really more focused on PR advertising, more of the traditional.
Ed Delia (15:59.597)
channels. Back then, the channels of marketing were fairly fixed for a B2B organization. You had direct mail, you had trade advertising, you obviously had a sales team, you were arming them with some form of literature or sales materials, and then you had trade shows and conferences, as well as maybe some PR. But those were the primary channels that existed in the 60s, 70s, 80s, even into the 90s.
Ed Delia (16:28.462)
Fast forward into 95, we see the proliferation of the web and that's just really changed the game and continues to change the game and evolve the game. So when I'd go to dad for advice before he passed, he's like, I don't understand any of technology stuff. But interestingly, Michael, usually when I went to him for advice, it wasn't about a tech problem. It was usually about a human problem and that he knew intimately well.
Michael Palumbos (16:55.682)
Yeah, we talk about that. I'm sure you've talked about it with the people that you've interviewed through the years. It doesn't matter what the business is. You're not in the business that you say you're in. Whether it's demolition or building buildings or manufacturing soup plant, no matter what you're doing.
Michael Palumbos (17:19.512)
You're in the people business. And if you're not understanding that that's the business that we're all in is the people business, the service or the product or whatever you develop the widgets don't really matter because it's behind it all as people.
Ed Delia (17:32.748)
Yes, absolutely. Especially true for a service side business as we are. It's about the relationships, the ones we form internally with our team, the ones we form with our supply chain partners, and of course the ones we form with our clients.
Michael Palumbos (17:47.212)
Yeah. So we just talked about PR and stuff that your dad did, and you like this branding. I think a lot of family businesses would benefit from understanding that spectrum of what happens and what are these different tools that a branding company, Delia Associates, brings to the table so that
Michael Palumbos (18:15.79)
Like for me, think almost PR and branding and content management, it's all one big thing, but it's not. You mind walking us through what that universe looks like and what's the difference?
Ed Delia (18:33.006)
Yeah,
Ed Delia (18:33.586)
sure. So we often break it down from brand development to branding. Brand development is a strategic exercise to understand what the brand is, what it means, how it's relevant, who its target persona is, and how it's going to walk out. For the family business, typically it's a little bit of a look back, look forward, know, look now. You know, what is our legacy?
Ed Delia (19:01.602)
How do we honor that legacy in a way that's modern and current and relevant to the today? And then how do we carry that legacy forward? What must we become to continue to be relevant to the next generation of buyers? And that's probably why a lot of brand revitalization happens for us on a generational transition, because the leadership is changing, but so is everything else around the business. The industry is changing. Their clientele is changing.
Ed Delia (19:31.202)
Buying habits are changing. So for that brand, for that next generation to say, well, I'm going to kind of sort of do it like my mom or dad or whomever previous to me did it, that's a recipe for failure. Because everything else has changed and you're saying I'm going to stay consistent. Well, you can stay consistent in certain ways, but you have to evolve. So brand development is a strategic exercise and that's-
Ed Delia (19:59.67)
the front end of our process. Branding then are all of the touch points we use to express that new or that revitalized or that brand position. So that could be in web, in digital, apparel, trade show, advertising, the messaging and PR, how it resonates or aligns to the brand messaging platform, presentation, social, inbound, now AI.
Ed Delia (20:28.418)
you know, how the brand shows up in AI. So all of those are touch points that ultimately are designed to do one thing is to connect relevant audiences with that brand.
Michael Palumbos (20:42.562)
So you have a unique perspective being a rising gen, next gen, second gen, yourself.
Ed Delia (20:51.234)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Palumbos (20:52.587)
Think about when you're talking with family businesses about what they're going through. What are some of the things that you feel that you're uniquely qualified to have?
Michael Palumbos (21:08.214)
you know, some different conversations because of what you went through with your dad.
Ed Delia (21:13.036)
Yeah, so when there's a second or a third, there's usually an immediate connection because I don't kind of sort of know what their journey was like. I explicitly know what their journey was like. And, you know, as I think I've never reviewed over 70 guests now in our podcast, which launched this year, every single one, there's a point of resonance.
Ed Delia (21:40.878)
You know, like I'm like, it's taking me back to, yeah, I remember that. I remember how that went. Um, so there's an immediate, um, connection. And I think also, um, by virtue of being a now 61 year old company, we also understand and honor legacy and we know how that's important. um, typically there's going to be some desire among a client to say,
Ed Delia (22:10.22)
Yeah, we need to be new, need to be contemporary, we need to go out and fresh start. However, let's make sure we're true to our roots and that we honor all that's come before us. Because all that's come before us, by the way, got us to this moment now.
Michael Palumbos (22:26.51)
100 %
Ed Delia (22:27.854)
think
Ed Delia (22:28.035)
there's a genuine appreciation for that.
Michael Palumbos (22:31.042)
Yeah, and that's something that you and I both share, you know, being second generation myself and we're in the process of adding my father to the website as you know, that legacy person and you know, we wouldn't have.
Michael Palumbos (22:48.558)
It's the Stuart Smith serve first philosophy regarding wealth advisory services. And it was created back in the late 40s and early 50s. And my father, he was introduced to Connecticut General Life Insurance is what it was back in the 70s. And when he was introduced to the Stuart Smith serve first, last and always kind of philosophy, my father was like,
Michael Palumbos (23:18.156)
that's where I want to be. want to serve, I don't want to be selling, want to consult. so luckily for me, it just fits our family culture and who we are. I almost didn't think about having Dad on the website for several years. And then it was as we were going through our rebranding and where we are, and I'm like,
Michael Palumbos (23:46.988)
I need to go back and honor all the things that he had, there's so many things that he did that I could have never done. And the fact that he really hook, line and sinker bought into the serve first philosophy and taught me so that I could teach it to the next generation of advisors that come up and what that really means just was super helpful. So I really appreciate the look back, look forward, make sure that there's a balance between
Michael Palumbos (24:16.77)
Where did we come from and where are we going?
Ed Delia (24:20.674)
Yeah, I mean, I think every, at least every multi-gen that I've talked to that successfully navigated the transition, there is, well, there's always going to be those moments and those things. And I'm sure you got them with your dad and I had with my dad. Like, what was he thinking? You know?
Michael Palumbos (24:38.644)
Maybe.
Ed Delia (24:40.142)
And I think that's natural, but that aside, there's always, I think, a genuine respect for what they did. They were the pioneer. They planted the flag. They went out there and did it when there was nothing, and they created something from nothing. And that's worth honoring and that's worth celebrating. And every single guest that I've talked to has that wired in that, yeah, there's some things that
Ed Delia (25:09.868)
Mom or dad did that. We're a little bit whatever, maybe off the rails, but darn it. They started it. They stuck to their guns. They made it happen. They worked hard and here we are today. So I think there's a lot of respect for that amongst the people I talked to. And I certainly share that respect for what my dad did. Cause we got to remember our first gens, there was no playbook. There was no standard operating procedures about how to do this. They just had to figure it out.
Ed Delia (25:39.598)
You know what is?
Michael Palumbos (25:43.126)
It's tough. It's tough. I he, he, I was one of the last generations that cold called in the wealth advisory space. You can't really hit you. mean, with do not call lists and all those things. Well, dad did that at a level that made me look like I was a, you know, a sloth. And, know, that's all he did, you know, calling into Eastman Kodak executives and business owners. And it just pretty amazing when you think about what.
Michael Palumbos (26:12.31)
what the world was like back then, you know? Talk about, you know, the complexity of, you know, B2B complexity, the B2B family business brand advantage, you know, what's happening in, you know, just kind of the space itself. Talk about that.
Ed Delia (26:40.92)
So certainly the complexity when it comes to, you know, there's brand development, there's branding, and then there's marketing, which is really the enablement of that brand and putting it out and pushing it out to the world in the B2B space, typically for the purposes of awareness and engagement. You know, we're not doing it for fun. We're doing it to, you know, create the next great customer relationship, or we're looking to help it.
Ed Delia (27:09.184)
advanced one that's already in play. So that's really, we often say, sometimes it's very easy to chase after the next new shiny object in marketing. And so I always invite clients or prospects or audiences when I'm speaking to say, okay, how will this further an existing relationship? How will this create a new one? And if you're having a real hard time figuring that out, it's probably not a good idea.
Ed Delia (27:37.324)
Or at least the idea needs some more refinement to become a good idea.
Michael Palumbos (27:41.538)
Can you repeat that again? What's question they should be asking themselves? I want to make sure that people catch this because it's really important.
Ed Delia (27:47.788)
Yes, how will this marketing initiative, whatever it may be, further an existing relationship, how will it create a new relationship? if there's a struggle.
Michael Palumbos (27:57.996)
simple. It's so simple but so clear that if they can't answer that question, you probably shouldn't be doing it. I love it.
Ed Delia (28:05.614)
Yeah, or
Ed Delia (28:06.434)
the opposite of Nike, just don't do it. If you just don't do it, it's not going to hurt you anyway. It means that there might be a different marketing initiative that will, you will have that clarity. Say, okay, we don't really see a path forward in social. However, we see some things happening in inbound, in inbound search or AI search that are worth exploring. Let's go deeper there.
Ed Delia (28:33.454)
and let's look at content to enable that. Okay, now we're onto something and now we can start to track and measure that and say, hey, we got something here. So that would be something that I would invite people to take, to always take a look at, because we always take a look.
Michael Palumbos (28:52.202)
Family businesses are, it's the backbone of almost all GDP around the world, but especially in the US, it's well over 50 % of the GDP is derived from family businesses. I would say that there's a unique advantage that family businesses have that not all family businesses take, you know,
Michael Palumbos (29:18.371)
utilize to their advantage. You want to talk about that a little bit from your perspective?
Ed Delia (29:22.894)
Absolutely. And I would say that we have a bias and the biases, or at least our point of view is they most certainly should because there are competitive advantages that can be unearthed from the family business model that other entities can't touch. Venture backed or PE backed companies look at the world differently than a family governed enterprise does.
Ed Delia (29:51.832)
First generation founder led looks at the world differently than a multi-generation business does. Non-for-profit or public enterprise looks at the world differently. Family businesses tend to look very long view. So in lieu of looking at maybe quarters or three to five year cycles or sprints, they're looking across decades or generations. Relationships come in co and some business models into the family business model.
Ed Delia (30:20.962)
relationships are paramount. Relationships with team, a lot of times you'll see, it's not uncommon for us to see not only like the second or third generation in command, but two or three generations of employees working there. So generation after generation, they're maintaining that loyalty to the brand, to the enterprise, right? So when you package that correctly, you know, it's like, especially in some of the like more regulated or
Ed Delia (30:50.434)
high precision industries. It's like, okay, they've been doing this for a hundred years across three generations, consistently servicing, high output, high quality, great customer base. Okay. That all looks pretty good. You know? Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like we could trust them because it's clear that trust and relationships are paramount to them. And at the core of that, you typically see
Ed Delia (31:20.308)
very deeply rooted values. you know, like, so sometimes we say, like, looking at like a non-for-profit, they're often mission driven, right? They're driven by a mission to serve something. For a family governed enterprise, the enterprise is the mission. And the values of family are tied very much directly into the values of the organization. And then they are constant from year after year and generation after generation.
Ed Delia (31:49.582)
And those typically don't waver. And that's one of the real, real beauties of now, sometimes we see they're not well articulated. They just kind of know them, right? Or they'll say them, or they'll just say, you um, you know, do it once, check twice or something like that. You know, there'll be these little isms that are passed down. Um, but in, in, you know, if you peel them away, what you see is, okay, that's a value around quality around attention to detail.
Ed Delia (32:17.518)
around the importance of getting it right and doing it right every time, around continuity, around loyalty, or service above self or whatever. And that really becomes a force multiplier when you start to express that as part of the brand messaging and the brand promise. And that's when it gets really exciting. And that's when you get competitive.
Michael Palumbos (32:42.35)
That's great, thank you. We talked about the, know, sometimes the family business has some advantages for what we're just, you know, what you just hit on.
Michael Palumbos (32:54.222)
And we also talked about the fact that private equity and the public markets are on different timetables. But at the same time right now, there is this development that's happening in the private equity world where they're loving the family-owned businesses. Talk about that a little bit.
Ed Delia (33:13.984)
Of course they are. I mean, for all the same reasons that, you know, I just cited, they're seeing that too. Like, wow, okay. They've got this established, team, veteran team knows their stuff. They even seem to have a mechanism of, you know, feeding that team with new blood. Okay. That's pretty cool. They've got these established partnerships and relationships going on for years with these really nice looking companies. They've got a proven business model that's
Ed Delia (33:44.204)
withstood the test of time, meaning that each generation was given the tools and skills to lead the right way and to lead effectively. Yeah, that's going to look very attractive. That's going to look very attractive. It's kind of de-risking for them. And I'll often say to companies that are sort of at that end where there isn't that next generation to take the reins, let's package this so we can get another
Ed Delia (34:13.575)
know, another multiple on the deal. You know,
Michael Palumbos (34:18.988)
Agreed. Walk us through if you would. I love stories, I love examples. Is there an example of a family business that you started to work with where they didn't see?
Michael Palumbos (34:34.03)
the world the way that you see the world. But they started talking to you and then here's what came out of it without going into details of the, you can talk about it from an industry perspective, but I think it would make, I think it'd be helpful for us to understand, Delia Associates goes in, they see something, walk me through what that looks like. me an example of what that would look like for somebody.
Ed Delia (35:01.262)
So oftentimes there is an appreciation for how we see the world and how they see the world. So they're like, okay, this company understands that our legacy is important. They get us, they understand our business and they understand where we're going. But every now and again, you're right. There's people that are like, well, that's not really important. Our marketplace doesn't care about that so much. They don't get into that. That doesn't influence them.
Ed Delia (35:29.442)
So sometimes it takes a little time to show them, here's some ways where it could influence them. because a lot of times they think in very pragmatic or tactical terms, like for instance, we've been providing value since 1946. OK, great. means you're established, but it's also kind of a
Ed Delia (35:58.518)
a package way of saying we're old. But so for one client who was sort of in that mindset, we said, let's try it a different way in a way that the industry can understand. So they were a specialty components manufacturer. I said to them, OK, across the span of your years, how many components, individual components have you constructed?
Ed Delia (36:26.634)
And they said, we keep records of that from number one, part number one, going all the way back to the beginning. Cool. So where are you at? We just crossed 24,000. Okay. That's how we're going to frame, you know, our legacy. It's not about the year. It's about the number of parts. So when a company is coming in and say they've developed and manufactured 24,000 custom complex parts. Yeah, I think they can help us.
Michael Palumbos (36:57.55)
So sometimes when you're in, when you're doing it every single day, you might not be able to know how to frame things so that it automatically exudes trust. automatically brings you to the table in a different light. And that's one of the things that you help people do. That's what branding is all about is to kind of dig in there and expose things that they might not be talking about that they should.
Ed Delia (37:26.936)
Yeah, they're talking about it, but they're just not framing it in ways that are brand or marketable. It's just they're oftentimes just, it's just how we do things, right? Okay. What they don't realize is how special the way they do things is and how uncommon the way they do things is.
Michael Palumbos (37:46.323)
Yeah, because it's not uncommon to them because they do it every day.
Ed Delia (37:49.038)
That's
Ed Delia (37:49.178)
the way they do it. That's our way. Why is that unique? I don't know. It's not unique. It's just what we do. Yeah, but what you do and how you do it is unique. It seems ordinary to you, but to the outside world, it's extraordinary because that's what enables your greatness. Let's articulate that better. Let's make that clearer and let's make sure it's known and known internally and externally.
Michael Palumbos (38:14.988)
Yeah, one that so for us and I'll share this as another example. My newest he's been with us over a year now, associate advisor. We're training him, bringing him up to speed. He was the great grandson of one of my father's first business owner clients. So, you know, we serve his great grandparents transition the business from.
Michael Palumbos (38:44.14)
My father did the transition from grandparents to the three brothers. The three brothers brought in the third generation and they made the decision that it wasn't viable to be in that business going forward. So we helped them on the &A side a little bit. It's a really funny story, but long story short, they...
Michael Palumbos (39:12.514)
They thought that they had it all figured out and we just helped guide a little bit. We kept telling them, you need to bring in an investment banker. You need somebody that can help package this because you're only going to get to sell this once. In hindsight, they're like, we should have listened to you guys on that. But that's a whole that's not why I'm saying it. But so the grandson, the great grandson did an internship with us over one summer, finished his MBA, you know, and then went and worked in the in the accounting world for a year.
Michael Palumbos (39:42.614)
and then came back and knocked on my door. He said, you know, I had fun interning with you, way more fun than doing the accounting work. And since you kind of helped sell my family's business, I think I'm to join your family's business if that's okay. And so there's no better story in my opinion than, you know, to take one of your top clients and he has seen us, you know, with his great-grandparents, and he didn't see the work that we did with the great-grandparents, but with his grandparents.
Michael Palumbos (40:11.042)
and his parents, and then starting to work with him and his siblings and cousins. And so here we are, a G4 coming into our business too, because he wanted to replicate that for other people. That's my version of the, we don't tell that story enough. And so as you're talking, I'm like, we've got to tell that story a lot more often.
Ed Delia (40:33.73)
FEN
Ed Delia (40:33.991)
Michael Palumbos (40:36.078)
That's great. Thank you. This was worth the call for me all by itself just right there.
Ed Delia (40:41.038)
That's really cool. absolutely. And that's something that, you know, hard to replicate. You know, how many firms can tell that story? Right. Not too many, maybe only one.
Michael Palumbos (40:51.416)
Yeah. So we've talked, we've hit on legacy as a strategic brand advantage. Is there a potential for somebody to be too nostalgic in how they're developing their things? is there a balance between giving too much of a nod to the past versus where I'm going?
Ed Delia (41:19.65)
There absolutely is a balance and it's really, it's honor the past, look to the future because the past is history, right? It's gone. You can't bring it back. You can be nostalgic in certain points in time that we do encourage, typically on milestone years. So we tend to get nostalgic. Like if a company is celebrating, it's like 75th or it's 50th or a hundred year, we had a client just hit a hundred year. We'll do some things to
Ed Delia (41:49.09)
you know, kind of look back, look forward because then it becomes, you know, it helps to, spotlight the legacy. It helps to, probably teach the new buyers and the new class of customers and prospects about things they probably never knew about or heard about. So it's a sort of a re, framing of the company and a reframing of the company's longevity. So.
Ed Delia (42:17.102)
Typically in a milestone year, we'll look for a nice little bump up in engagement above and beyond the norm because it is a special year and we are spotlighting it. So we're bringing a lot more attention to the brand in that year. But it's got to be done correctly. And I'm a big fan personally of like, if you're going to hit a milestone year in 26, first of all, you should have started your planning two months ago and you should be celebrating that milestone year.
Ed Delia (42:46.698)
all through the year. Some people are saying, well, officially our founders day, our founders day was October 11th. When we had 60, we celebrated that from January 1 through October 11th. So you don't wait for the actual, you celebrate the year and look for ways to make the whole year commemorative and always bring the team into play because they're here representing the brand today.
Ed Delia (43:15.622)
And we have a client who we helped them with his town hall. But one of the things he does that's great is before the town hall starts, he takes all the first year members of the team that are new to the team, brings them in the room and said, I want to walk you through our history. And I want to tell you about our history because as we get into the section about values, you'll see where those values came from, you know, and they walk out of there just so kind of enriched.
Ed Delia (43:43.16)
from that experience of that kind of one-on-one with the CEO, telling them the story of his company, you know, that started with his dad, you know. So those are great things to do, to make sure that the current representative population of the organization understands what the history is to.
Michael Palumbos (44:01.454)
Yeah, I'm in the process. It's so funny that we, you just said that I want to, think it's important to hear this. Um, we found a videographer in town that does family business, legacy stories and videos. And so, um, we're working with a couple of our top clients to catch those stories because you can, you can put up the values.
Michael Palumbos (44:30.86)
You can show some pictures, but to have the founder or the current generation who knows all the stories, they know where the bodies are buried, they know the good times, the bad times, the pros and the cons that they've gone through, and to hear that story told is so important because you can get more out of that than any other way. And I just think story is so important. Why did we get founded? What happened?
Michael Palumbos (44:59.692)
The one that I just sent the email to, one of the things that happened was the owner of the company that he worked for said to him, you know, well, you got two choices. You can go look for a job or you can buy this company. Whoa, that's okay, really? Okay, I don't, how do I do this? I know, you know, like now I gotta worry about cashflow and I gotta put these things in. And they worked it all out. And then they found some good vendors to help them bridge this spot of.
Michael Palumbos (45:28.086)
I don't own a business. I don't have the cash to own this business and the owner that was there, know, there helped them with those pieces. But like that amount of stress and pressure to be able to say, if I don't make this happen, my family doesn't eat. And he kept that same feeling for all of his employees, everybody that worked for him. Like it was like, if we don't succeed, these families don't succeed. And like,
Michael Palumbos (45:56.236)
You know, as he went through the ups and downs of the economy through the years and different phases, it was like, he let everybody down if he ever had to have layoffs. And it was just weighed on him so much that he was always like, how do I get these, how do I turn this back around? And what do we need to do to make this thing happen? And like, he's a pillar of the community and a lot of jobs there. So it just really neat to see these stories. And, you know, he has a granddaughter.
Michael Palumbos (46:25.56)
that's not going to be in the business. And they probably will be having a family exit. But four generations from now, I wanna make sure that the family understands how did we get to who we are and how does this company in this community, why was it so important and what did grandma and grandpa do and my uncle do to get it to mom and dad, you know what I mean?
Michael Palumbos (46:53.922)
the whole family, what did we do to get there? I just think that's huge.
Ed Delia (46:58.348)
Yeah, when that's possible, I'd encourage any listener to do it. As you're talking about it, Michael, I tried to do it with my dad. said, once I said, dad, when he was still alive, said, I'd love to interview you and kind of hear your story about your version of The Origins. And he kind of said to me, what, you want to hear my story before I die? I'm like, no, no, no, kind of, but no.
Michael Palumbos (47:26.254)
Yeah, think it's sometimes it's just being curious to you know, the the founder oftentimes and you might have agreed or disagreed but what the founder oftentimes is like, it's just my story. It's just what I had to do and so like, you know, like you said, you know, the earlier you were talking about the you know, this is just the way we always did it. So they don't understand the power of what that story could do for somebody else in the future.
Ed Delia (47:55.362)
Yeah, and when you talk about, we did, I did interview, it was a second gen. The third generation is in controlling operation of the business, but the second gen is still around and his father had founded, actually his father and mother together. And we interviewed him for the purpose of developing like a commemorative milestones ebook for their, I guess it was their 75th year. And the third generation was probably
Ed Delia (48:25.056)
more moved by watching the recorded interview than by the finished ebook product itself. And right away, dash that off to her kids so they could see a whole different side of grandpa that they never saw before. That was really impactful for them. So yeah.
Michael Palumbos (48:46.766)
That's great. So you're talking about, you know, from one generation to the next generation. Talk about, you know, what happens to the brand of a business when it's going through these transitional periods.
Ed Delia (49:02.04)
So when a transition is happening, it's simply happening after a healthy period of years have transpired. the leadership is now changing, it's transitioning. But as I said earlier, the world around that business has also transitioning. The buying base is transitioning. The tried and true relationships are also
Ed Delia (49:31.306)
aging out and retiring. And there's this new class of buyers coming in that maybe never heard of this company before, you know. And if you try to go forward with an old brand, you're probably going to fail because that next generation, now they're older, not, they're not with it, you know, they're not here. So what we often see around that time is that
Ed Delia (50:01.742)
One of my team, our senior creative director, he refers to it as leveling up. So the company is moving on. The brand is still back here in time. The brand needs to catch up to be commensurate with this transition. And if it doesn't, it's going to become like kind of like running with a parachute on your back. It's like we keep pulling us back. It's a drag. So it's a level up opportunity.
Michael Palumbos (51:22.388)
I want to go back to your story for a second and, and talk about what was the transition between you and your father and how was that, you know, how did that go? Cause you and I talked about that a little bit and I, and I skipped over it earlier, but I want to, I want to dive into that so that people can hear the, you know, your story.
Ed Delia (51:51.436)
You want to hear about two crazy passionate Italians and how that works? So, know, I remember, you know, I made the decision because my dad is like, you know, I was about to take this job and my dad, we sat down and he had this heart to heart. said, listen, I'd like to give you the opportunity to come into the business. I'll teach you what you don't know. You can buy me out. You can buy me out over time. We'll work that out. And then he said, but
Michael Palumbos (51:54.707)
Yes, please!
Ed Delia (52:20.696)
Can you decide over this weekend? Cause I have three or four companies that are looking to potentially purchase Delia associates, which at the time, this was 1995, that's pretty impressive that he was able to engineer that because, you know, buy sells in our industry were pretty tricky back then. Still tricky, but not as not quite like it was. So, you know, I took the weekend to think about it and I said, I'm 22 years old. And if I pass on this, I'm about to pass on business leadership, you know, and
Ed Delia (52:49.078)
I said, I better give this a try. And I told myself, all right, I'm going to give this six months and see. And I often tell young people who are looking to, you know, at that crossroads of do I join the family business or go my own way? Well, if you try it and you find that time flies, you're probably in a good place. Because I looked up and a year had passed. I'm like, how did that happen? You know, and I'm working long hours and working weekends and I'm
Ed Delia (53:16.248)
you know, doing everything I can to absorb as much as I can and accelerate as fast as I can. But boy, did time fly. And that's when I kind of knew, all right, I think I'm in a good place. That's great. So that was kind of the start of it all. then, you know, we certainly did butt heads, my dad and I, you know. And it's funny, I often ask guests on my show how they resolve conflict, right?
Ed Delia (53:45.966)
Cause you're going to have conflict, right? It's, it's inevitable. So, um, it's the way we would kind of resolve it, at least the way I reconciled it in my head was who was more passionate about the idea. So if we are in a disagreement and, and like, dad was really like fired up about it he was more passionate than I was. like, okay, dad, we'll do it your way. And then I think sometimes he just liked the conflict and the challenge. He's like, wait a minute, what do you mean? I'm like, no, we'll do it your way. It's like, wait, we're not going to fight.
Michael Palumbos (54:15.182)
Ha
Ed Delia (54:15.886)
And if I was really passionate, I'd plant my flag in the dirt and say, this is what we're doing. And he would eventually acquiesce. So who was more passionate about the idea? It was kind of the way we would resolve it.
Michael Palumbos (54:18.06)
That's pretty cool.
Michael Palumbos (54:33.902)
Michael Palumbos (54:34.263)
So so like you're you know, you're 22 years old and Walking right basically you walked right in knowing that you're gonna be owning the company And he's gonna teach you how long did you guys work together?
Ed Delia (54:48.91)
So we worked together for five years and on the turn of 2000, this time it was my turn to have the heart to heart. And I said, Dad, I love you, but one of us needs to go do something else now. And I felt that we were locking horns a little too much and that he was, I think it was time.
Ed Delia (55:17.524)
I was of a mindset at the time that if he really, said, dad, if you really want to stay on, I'll go do something else. You know, forget about where we are in the buyout. Just don't worry. I'll just go do something else. said, but if you want me to take this over, I got to, I got to lead fully now. And, you know, he reluctantly agreed to step down. and there were a few months of grumbling, but then something beautiful and amazing happened.
Ed Delia (55:47.586)
He discovered all the things that he could do in retirement, all the things that he wanted in his life, all the things that he shelved because he was too busy and the business commanded all of his attention suddenly became realities for him. And I can honestly say the last 12 years of his life were the best of our relationship. And we had some of high points, but, you know, my God, was just having this mentor and advisor who I could turn to, you know, with questions.
Ed Delia (56:16.718)
who was fully engaged in life and loving life and, you know, was really a beautiful thing. So,
Michael Palumbos (56:23.566)
What were some
Michael Palumbos (56:24.086)
the things that he picked up, if you don't mind sharing? Because I think a lot of times, you know, we don't know what to retire to. that's always, you know, something that I tell people all the time. Don't retire from the business. Retire to something different. So what were some of the things that your dad latched onto?
Ed Delia (56:43.406)
So a few nonprofit boards. This was kind of, and then one thing he did that he really loved, which was, so they retired to Charleston, South Carolina. And one of my older brothers had gone to the Citadel and my dad was old Navy. And it was funny, like going back to Charleston was kind of like going back home for him because he spent a number of years in the Navy there and still had friends there. So he got involved as a mentor to Citadel cadets.
Ed Delia (57:13.326)
who were looking to take a business track and he loved it. And these guys would come over the house, they're hugging him and they're like, he's like this like guru to them. you know, cause he, you know, he basically went all in with it and really helped them and would help them, you know, they'd come to him with decisions about jobs and hey, I've got these two opportunities, Mr. Leah, how do I weigh him? And he would help them through that thought process. And that was probably one of his favorite, you know, kind of next 2.0s.
Ed Delia (57:43.278)
Um, and then the thing that, was ironic was it was, think 1997 and we were upgrading the computer systems. And so I put a computer on his desk and he said, take that away. And I'm like, why? He goes, it makes too much noise. I'm like, what are you talking about? I guess the, like the humming of the fans back then. Sure. And what, why it was kind of ironic is.
Ed Delia (58:12.704)
After retirement, he got really good with technology. He knew how to do things that most older guys didn't really get their hands around. It was kind of a funny turn. He'd show me something. I where'd you pick that up? He goes, on the internet. learned. I'm like, you? Really? Okay.
Michael Palumbos (58:37.727)
It's one of my mottoes is always be learning.
Michael Palumbos (58:41.274)
I think, you know, we just because we retire doesn't mean that we should stop learning new things and pick up picking up new skills. My wife just retired and she found herself reading, you know, great books, but they were, you know, they were the fiction books and you know, whatnot. And I told her, said, we've been at least once a quarter, a nonfiction book and something that's, know, that you're learning and pushing yourself. And she's like, you're absolutely right.
Michael Palumbos (59:11.088)
and she picked that right up right away. It's led to a couple of really neat discussions. She's like, I'm reading this great book and it's a great story, you gotta read it. But then she'll come back with the nonfiction and say, all right, let's talk about X, Y, or Z or whatever. And she goes, did you read this book? Yes, I read that. All right, let's talk about it.
Ed Delia (59:28.798)
That's, I think that's something that's a great piece of advice for any leader. And I don't know about you, but I struggle with it sometimes and I really have to force the discipline and that's continuous learning. You know, we've always got to be learning and sometimes it's hard. We're in the belly of our business, you know, making things go and making sure we carve out that hour or that half hour or whatever in the day to learn something new.
Michael Palumbos (59:54.37)
Yeah, I think I'm blessed in that arena, blessed and cursed at the same time, because I am constantly learning.
Michael Palumbos (01:00:02.798)
I love to dive into new and different things, but if I hadn't, I wouldn't have the business that I have today. How do you put together wealth advisory, business coaching, and family dynamics, and family governance work in one spot? Everybody's like, those are three different things. I'm like, no, that's what runs a family is all of the family business. It's all of those things. so I tell people.
Michael Palumbos (01:00:28.47)
I'm kind of like the Renaissance guy. I can paint and I can sculpt and I can write some sonnets and put some pieces together that will knock your socks off. So I think we don't give enough credit. We've gotten so specialized and we dig into our area of expertise that we don't often go out. But that's how you create something is...
Michael Palumbos (01:00:53.964)
let's do it, work in a different medium and let's try to invent something that didn't exist before we got into it because of where we're at. And a lot of that comes from when I'm reading, I'm not just reading business books, I'm reading biographies and read the biography of Albert Einstein or Rockefeller or Benjamin Franklin or Da Vinci. It's really wicked cool.
Michael Palumbos (01:01:23.554)
to start to think about this stuff from other people's perspectives and that's really helped shape a lot of my thinking around this stuff.
Ed Delia (01:01:34.422)
Yeah, and certainly I'm sure it opens up new ideas and new channels of ideas that maybe wouldn't have showed up otherwise.
Michael Palumbos (01:01:41.6)
Yeah, I call them my working girl moments. Remember the movie Working Girl with Melanie Griffith? I do. And she's on the elevator with the guy who's going to put these deals together. He's like, how did you come up with this? And she walks through and points all the pieces together. And then her boss comes on the elevator. He's like, how did you come up with this stuff? And she's like, well,
Michael Palumbos (01:02:05.836)
And it's, got to be able to connect dots that other people can't see to create those things. And I think that's, you you do that on a regular basis because like you said, you know, it's I'm in the business, I'm working on the business and this is just the way we've always done it. But you come in with a fresh set of eyes and start looking at things and say, Ooh, it's not yours. It's number of items that you've created. It's not that it's this and that's
Michael Palumbos (01:02:32.066)
That's a pretty remarkable ability to be able to do that for somebody.
Ed Delia (01:02:36.75)
Thank you.
Ed Delia (01:02:40.375)
the brand, by the way, the hardest brand that we work on is DeLeo
Michael Palumbos (01:02:46.67)
100
Michael Palumbos (01:02:47.19)
% 100 % I have found so Monday and Tuesday next week is our annual planning for 2026 and I finally relented and we have a coach coming in to lead me through those things and she started working with me a few years ago. Yeah, a few years ago a few months ago.
Michael Palumbos (01:03:10.562)
because somebody poked me and said, who's your coach, Mike? You're always telling us to get a coach. I'm like, you're right. But we have a sales coach. We've had marketing coaches work with us. We've had, you know, and this is just a business coach. We're, you know, we're launching the family business flywheel in this whole new, it's a whole new ecosystem. And we believe that.
Michael Palumbos (01:03:34.338)
we're really gonna do something special, but I need somebody that's looking at my stuff with not from my eyes, I need that coach in there. And I always say to people, there's no great basketball team or football team that made it to their championship without having a coach.
Ed Delia (01:03:50.584)
all set. Good idea. mean, it's really good. Yeah.
Michael Palumbos (01:03:54.03)
It just pushes you because, they're in one, you're paying this person. So you're looking to get, you know, a return on your investment that you're putting in there. And so you're really bringing your best foot forward and it's forcing you to do some things and just take some time outside of your business and work on the business, not just in the business. And they see things differently than you can see them just because you're in it.
Ed Delia (01:04:19.0)
Yeah.
Michael Palumbos (01:04:20.706)
Talk about, you're sitting in front of a group of family businesses, you're on the panel, and you're giving them your three top most important things as a family, even being part of a family business, what would you say your three pieces of advice would be for them?
Ed Delia (01:04:40.75)
Great question. Great visual too. I like the panel. That was cool. So I think one is to recognize that change is inevitable and to know that just as the generations will change and the people will change so must the brand. I've never known a company say, wow, we revitalized the brand too soon.
Ed Delia (01:05:10.368)
Usually like we've done this. I've, literally verbatim, the second gen said we should have done this 10 years ago. I said, yes, you should have, but the good news is you did it today. You go into a bigger place. so that would be one is just recognize that change is inevitable. two would be certainly to balance legacy with the world today and the world coming.
Ed Delia (01:05:37.868)
Right? So there's who we were, who we are and who we will be. and that's important. And the third I would say is to let the rising generation lead the charge on that brand revitalization because they are ultimately the ambassador of that revitalized brand. They are the ones. people have sometimes asked me like, can you tell if a next gen is going to make it or not? And
Ed Delia (01:06:06.966)
I have a fairly simple litmus test that I use and it's do they have a vision? Does the next generation have a vision that's theirs? And it doesn't even have to be a good vision. They just have to have one, you know, that's theirs, that they can own and they can fall in love with and they can refine it and they will refine it over time. But if they don't have a vision, if they're saying, well, I kind of want to do things the way they've always been done, that's when I work.
Michael Palumbos (01:06:48.6)
I have not ever had this much internet interference ever. My wife left, took the dog with her, everything's good. All right. Let me try to pull that back so that we can, how do I edit this perfectly? All right. So those are the two things that you've, that, know, pieces of advice. What's your third?
Ed Delia (01:07:14.342)
The third would be to let that next generation that's rising to leadership lead the charge when it comes to that brand revitalization exercise because they will ultimately be the chief brand ambassador of that new and revitalized brand and they are the future. They have to have an equal if not heavier voice in that conversation. That's something I always look for.
Ed Delia (01:07:44.344)
when I'm talking with a multi-generation business, especially a second gen, is do they have a vision that's their own? And I'm sorry, but doing it a little better than my mom or dad is not a vision. Right. I often say it doesn't even have to be a good vision, Michael, because it'll be crude and raw because they're young and it'll refine over time, but as long as it's their own. Yeah. I had a vision for brand. I had a vision that said, I wonder,
Ed Delia (01:08:14.166)
I always believe in staying in a state of wonder because when you stay in a state of wonder, really cool ideas happen. But I wonder if I could create a system to enable B2B brands to be more effective and more competitive and use brand as a competitive asset. And that's where our brand leadership solution was born. You know, it was really just saying, I wonder if I can systematize this, if I can make this a repeatable process. So it's not just,
Ed Delia (01:08:42.473)
know, the wizardry of the creative services industry, but it's actually through due process that we enable the best, most powerful brand for a company. And that's really where that process was born.
Michael Palumbos (01:08:54.498)
Do you want to walk through, walk us, you know, just kind of walk us through the steps of that process?
Ed Delia (01:09:00.288)
Yes, it's a four step process. We call them the four Ds. So discover, define, differentiate and deploy. discovery.
Michael Palumbos (01:09:13.453)
Michael Palumbos (01:09:14.353)
You've taken a very complicated process and broken into four easily definable steps. And that's what makes a really good SOP. That's what makes a really good process duplicatable inside of there. I know.
Michael Palumbos (01:09:33.226)
And you know, there's a whole bunch of stuff behind the scenes that are making those things, you know, making that come together. But because you've done it over and over and over again, it's now a duplicatable system that I got to believe that when you walk into family businesses that are, you know, B2B businesses, they're really digging in, you know, and appreciating that that process.
Ed Delia (01:09:58.894)
They seem to appreciate the thoroughness of it and the tools and instruments we use to bring the clarity and the rationale. And that probably comes from our roots and from my dad. We often refer to our team as thinking creatives or thinking technologists. So we're never going to do something just because it's whiz bang cool.
Ed Delia (01:10:26.284)
We're going to do everything we do. There's a purpose and intent. And any one of my team members, you know, when asked can articulate, this is why I did this because of these parameters of the brand. This is why I did this because I'm trying to achieve this effect because it highlights this attribute of the brand or if it differentiates in the way that we're looking to. So they all are predisposed to, to know that. Cause I will ask them, you know, why did you do that?
Ed Delia (01:10:55.244)
and they'll tell me why they did that. you know, obviously if they can't explain it to me, how the heck are we going to go explain it to a client?
Michael Palumbos (01:11:03.118)
Absolutely. Is there anything I haven't asked you that I should have?
Ed Delia (01:11:09.442)
Well, Michael, as a fellow second gen, we could probably speak for days.
Michael Palumbos (01:11:15.826)
100%. And you know what, I think what you said in your third piece of advice is really, good when you're talking about allowing the second gen or the next gen, the rising gen to lead in our model, we call that leading together. And there has to be, it's a good one of my mentors said to me, these things don't fall in a race.
Michael Palumbos (01:11:43.864)
you know, when the person's running full steam and they're going after it. It's in that relay when it's during that transition in the passing of the baton, you've just got to, you know, allow that handoff to work really, really well. the only way that the handoff works really well is when you allow the other person their autonomy as well. The other, the next, the rising generation, their autonomy. So I really want to appreciate you bringing that to everybody's attention.
Ed Delia (01:12:12.558)
I think you just said it a lot better than I did, so thank you for.
Michael Palumbos (01:12:14.658)
No,
Michael Palumbos (01:12:18.621)
but again, it's going back to the we're both have been there. We you know, I come at it from a different perspective. So I just have a different set of stories. But like together, we've hit all of the the main things that I think, you know, we need to be talking about. thank you, Ed, I really appreciate you being on the show. And Delia.
Michael Palumbos (01:12:41.375)
Delia Associates, if people want to, know, it's delianet.com is the website. You're available on LinkedIn, I would imagine.
Ed Delia (01:12:52.738)
very available on LinkedIn. So I was an early adopter of LinkedIn. I've never left the platform. So yes, Ed Delia. And if you see come across the younger version that kind of sort of looks like me, that's probably my nephew, Eddie Delia, not me. So I'm the older one.
Michael Palumbos (01:13:07.98)
There
Michael Palumbos (01:13:08.43)
you go. Well, thank you for joining us. Thanks for sharing your story and your wisdom. I really appreciate, know, there's a lot of here. It's not just it's not just a family business story, which is what we have all the time, but it's also, you know, how can a family business utilize branding and their story and the things that they do to really enhance, you know, how they're going out to market and how they're presenting themselves. So appreciate you sharing all that.
Ed Delia (01:13:35.862)
Michael, thank you so much for letting me be on your show. I love what you're doing too. And I'm grateful for the opportunity to talk with you today and talk with your listenership.
Michael Palumbos (01:13:45.4)
Great. Thanks everybody for listening. My name's Michael Palumbos. I'm with Family Wealth and Legacy in Rochester, New York, and you've been listening to the Family Biz Show and Ed Delia from Delia Associates. We look forward to having you listening on the next episode of the Family Biz Show. Have a great day everybody. Take care.
