Transcript

Michael Palumbos (00:49.048)

Welcome everybody to the Family Biz Show. I am your host, Michael Palumbos with Family Wealth and Legacy in Rochester, New York. And today we've got the Wheeler family with us from Sea to Sea, Wild Alaskan Fish Company. And we're really excited. This is a fourth generation, fifth generation business now, right? One, two, three, fourth generation business. So you're just passing this tradition of fishing down for years and years now. 

Michael Palumbos (01:19.03)

Rich, Sina, welcome aboard. Nice to have you here. 

Rich Wheeler (01:23.054)

Thanks for having us. So is it five generations? 

Sena Wheeler (01:23.672)

Yeah, hi there. Thanks for having us. 

Sena Wheeler (01:27.384)

Well, actually, I was saying three when we first started a website because that's who I knew, my grandpa, my dad, us. And then I found an obituary for my grandpa's dad and it talked about learning from his dad. So I'm calling that five. And then in fact, my parents are saying it goes many more beyond that, but I'm going with what's recorded. So easy five. 

Michael Palumbos (01:45.26)

Yeah? 

Michael Palumbos (01:55.27)

That's great. It's funny. had another client there. They were, the community that they lived in wanted to, you know, verify when it really, when the company started. she's digging through all kinds of documents and finally found like the first pay a check that was written to her father for work that, you know, that he did 65 years ago. And it's like, yes, we really are this old. 

Michael Palumbos (02:24.974)

So we have, we have a tradition on the show where we just ask you guys to talk about your journey and getting into the family business. It's different for everybody. Some people it's, you know, you were, you have, you know, in your circumstances might've had fishing in the blood for other people. You know, it's like, what is this fishing thing? And what do you really think I'm going to like it? And, know, so for you guys, each of you, what was the 

Michael Palumbos (02:53.432)

What was the root into the family business? 

Sena Wheeler (02:56.334)

Well, think one first off, think the surprising thing people often assume that it which is the fisherman and they might assume that it is through his family line. So it's the generational aspect is on my side and Rich is the son-in-law. And what's interesting is that my dad was also the son-in-law. So actually come from a line of fishing wives. We just kind of find a fisherman. 

Michael Palumbos (03:23.95)

Maybe a hook to your guy. Sorry, I couldn't help it. But it's really interesting because I've spoken to lots of families through the years and sometimes they're like, you can't come into the business unless you're a blood relative. they keep it in that line and passing it that way. I have always said that, you know, we choose our spouses. So they, or, you know, the 

Michael Palumbos (03:53.612)

they don't come in because they have to, they're not blood. And so if they wanna come into the business and be part of it, they're doing it because they want to, not because they have to. So that's pretty interesting that that's on that way. 

Rich Wheeler (04:07.566)

And I'll go back to, my interest in fishing started, uh, obviously before we even met, you know, I'm, uh, I was encouraged by my high school wrestling coach that, you know, that, um, maybe this would might be something I might be interested in and he did it himself. And, uh, you know, and then one of my great best friends growing up, uh, on the high school wrestling team. 

Rich Wheeler (04:35.138)

college roommate and everything else. He actually went out and did it and came back and said, you need to go do this, give it a try. And then at that time, Sam and I were dating. And so fortunately, I enjoyed the work and thought that I could make a career out of it. 

Michael Palumbos (04:52.846)

That's interesting. Tell us about, you I don't think most people know, you know, unless you're watching, you know, some of the reality TV shows that are out there nowadays, but what is the life in the day and what, you know, how does business operate for you guys? And what does that look like? Cause I think it's totally different than a lot of other business owners. 

Rich Wheeler (05:16.75)

Yeah, yeah, being self employed. First and foremost is probably in my opinion, I don't think seen as too far off on this is the greatest thing ever. I don't know if I could ever go back to work for anybody. You know, one, I have a both of us have a very strong work ethic. And we're very disciplined. We're you know, I get up really early, I am at my computer, I get my computer work done. And then, you know, 

Rich Wheeler (05:44.174)

This is during the off season, of course. And then when I'm up in Alaska, it's a tremendous amount of work and you have to be self disciplined. 

Michael Palumbos (05:54.254)

Are you seven days a week on the wall? 

Rich Wheeler (05:56.334)

Rich Wheeler (05:58.037)

No, no, my fishing now is that where I am probably more behind the computer and at the desk and we'll dive into the only 

Sena Wheeler (06:08.098)

explain the whole progression. So he started, he broke in on my dad's boat, the Alreda, and he fished on that boat for 10 years. And that is a longline boat. So a longline crew has a very specific, typically it's about five guys, very specific crew. They're, they're working together seasonally and they have the winters off. And that looks, mean, Deadliest Catch is a little bit dramatized, but it's not that far off. They're on 

Sena Wheeler (06:37.858)

boats just a little bit smaller. They're fishing in the summer though, not the winter. And there you would be gone maybe five weeks and then back for a little bit and back and forth. So they take kind of big trips up to Alaska. And then when our youngest was born, we have three kids, when our youngest was born, he started salmon fishing. the 

Sena Wheeler (07:01.612)

The idea or the dream was salmon fishing is smaller boat. It's more personal. kind of you own your own boat and you run your own schedule and you could bring your family out or do kind of whatever you want. And so the idea was to get the family more involved by entering into the salmon fishing. And that's what we did. So he was doing some longlining still on other boats, but then also salmon fishing. So you were doing quite a bit. And then 

Sena Wheeler (07:32.046)

several years into that, started doing scene to see where we're selling our own fish. And four years into that, the processing plant that was cutting our fish said, Hey, we're going to be selling. And in this tiny town that we're in, was like, well, the big guys are going to buy it and they won't want to cut any little guy's fish or you could buy it. And we're like us. 

Michael Palumbos (08:01.39)

You do, I mean, really, from catching it to processing it to shipping it out to places. 

Sena Wheeler (08:07.168)

Yeah, so now we did an investment group and we bought the facility. So now we fish, we catch it, cut it, freeze it, sends it down to me. I'm in Washington state. We have a warehouse down here where we store it, take the orders, ship it to your door. And so we're actually doing the entire theme, which I think I can safely say I have never heard of anybody else that does all the way from catching to being the last one to touch your fish. 

Sena Wheeler (08:37.089)

and nobody. 

Michael Palumbos (08:38.765)

That's pretty cool. 

Rich Wheeler (08:39.982)

Yeah, it's an immense amount of work. I think I'm entering into my 25th year of fishing. And as the progression goes from, you know, starting out working on deck to, you know, getting your skipper slippers, as they call them, you know. And so that and that's what I've kind of found myself, particularly last year, I stayed back and didn't fish as much and ran the processing facility more. 

Rich Wheeler (09:09.878)

So which I really enjoy. I enjoy the work and I enjoy being around people. 

Michael Palumbos (09:17.496)

Good. How many people don't between processing and the boats, how many people are on the team now? 

Rich Wheeler (09:25.432)

Probably like North Seafoods is the name of our facility. We employ about 25 people there. And then we on the boats, know, generally now with my long landing, I'm a rider on a lot of these boats. And so it's myself and it might be four other guys. Yeah, don't have to employ them. I just go get my quota card. It's pretty laid back, pretty easy compared to where I started in at. 

Sena Wheeler (09:44.608)

Right, but you don't have to. 

Rich Wheeler (09:55.584)

So it's been a really interesting progression of how we do things. know, CNSC is an amazing platform to leap from. It's brought us a lot of connections. And I think we're both really happy with what we're doing right now. 

Sena Wheeler (10:12.396)

Well, and you know, it's really cool. We bring the kids up to Alaska and they come they've for years. I mean, forever, they've been coming out on the boat and fishing. They know how to be on the boat. Now with the processing plant, we will get in and they just immediately put the boots on and start shoveling ice or they know the jobs at the processing plant. And then when they come home, we we also run farmers markets. They'll come to the market and they'll sell the fish. And I'm telling you, I have gone to, you know, use the restroom. 

Sena Wheeler (10:42.336)

and how my son there at the booth said, okay, you know, and, I come back and this guy is saying that he goes, is your son serious? Did he catch this fish? Well, yeah, probably. I mean, we did just get back from Alaska. And he goes, I just take my money, give me whatever. This is incredible. 

Michael Palumbos (11:03.074)

I love it. love it. Well, let's take, let's take a shift for just a second. want to come back to what you're doing in just a second, but compare what you do today to how your grandfather, what was, what was it like when they started that business or your father, what were the, what was it like then? And what, know, how did they make money? you know, they're all, know, fill me in, fill it, know, teach us. This is interesting. 

Rich Wheeler (11:34.638)

I think I'll speak to that. Yeah, I think that so these guys went out and they were fishing for you know, they would back prior to my involvement and I'll speak specifically maybe to even seen as dad's fishing was they you know, it was a derby style. They'd go out and it's like Olympic style fishing where you had an opener for 24 hours 48 hours and you ran as much gear as you possibly could. 

Rich Wheeler (12:01.976)

to bring as much fish on board and then that was it. Then they would close and then you would wait, you know, a week or two weeks or whatever it was for the next opener. And then the entire fleet would run out and do the same thing over and over and over, you know, throughout a season. And to tell you that the quality of the fish probably wasn't the best and you had probably the work was immensely difficult and challenging. 

Sena Wheeler (12:27.052)

dangerous because you're making what it was was basically you start with my grandpa, they would go out for a month and fill the boat out at sea for a month. And it was all about that's where the terms highliner that's how low the boat is when it comes in how much fish you have on the boat that was kind of the the era it was like loading this boat how much fish and and they might be out for four weeks. The bottom fish 

Sena Wheeler (12:56.616)

It was just, it was horrible, the qualities. So it wasn't a quality theme. This would be like in the seventies or sixties. So then it went to my dad who the times shrunk. So, okay, you have a week to catch it. You have, it got shorter and shorter until it was these really intense derby days, like Rich was saying, where really high stress. And you have to make, I mean, it's not, 

Michael Palumbos (13:02.744)

Sure. 

Sena Wheeler (13:24.526)

Sometimes people see it as a greed thing, but you have a family. This is your livelihood and you have to earn it in a couple of 24 hour windows for the season. And so it's stressful and it's dangerous and you can't get the quality. So luckily those derby days, they worked really hard to change that to the quota system, which is much better. now a fisherman knows how much fish they're allotted to catch. 

Michael Palumbos (13:34.69)

Wow. 

Sena Wheeler (13:52.134)

and it's just much more better regulated that way. So now when Rich does it, they know how much they can catch, they get to decide when they go out. So if it's blowing a gale, they don't have to go out. They have more control around their own schedule and theoretically they can sleep at night. 

Rich Wheeler (14:13.75)

A little bit of and rest. And you know, back when Cena's dad first broke in, they would make 21 day trips. They would leave Seattle, go up the inside, and then go right out to out west, out to Dutch or something like that, and fill the boat, and then drive it all the way back down to Seattle and get paid probably maybe 90 cents a pound for their halibut or something like that. 

Rich Wheeler (14:42.83)

the today. I think the last trips of this season were, you know, the guys were getting 650 a pound or seven bucks a pound or something like that. 

Sena Wheeler (14:53.624)

But they go out now, how long is it? 

Rich Wheeler (14:55.182)

Rich Wheeler (14:56.395)

Couple day trips. 

Sena Wheeler (14:57.43)

And they come right back in fresh fish, better price, better quality. So the whole industry has shifted from quantity to quality. 

Rich Wheeler (15:08.494)

That's great. 

Michael Palumbos (15:09.951)

And one of the things I want to say, you know, in the construction industry, we're in upstate New York. So we get this time from May to about August or, you know, September, depending on, know, what our weather is breaking. And a lot of times they'll call, know, that's silly season. So silly seasons, a couple of months, your relatives had silly season for weeks or days. that's, yeah, that's pretty intense because 

Michael Palumbos (15:39.278)

You know, in the construction industry, again, upstate New York, where, you know, we're dealing with people a lot there, you know, it's make or break it in those couple of months, everything's got to go right. And you've got to get your jobs in on time. You talk about pressure. 

Rich Wheeler (15:57.422)

Yeah, you could you could imagine trying to fill a crew of knowledgeable men that know how to do this sort of work. And this is you know, this is where I was on the Alreda for 12 years, and I worked with these men for, you know, that entire time. And there was obviously some real disagreements. But I am forever grateful for the trade that they taught me. And very thankful for you know, the opportunity to learn something and go out and I can provide I can step on any boat today. 

Rich Wheeler (16:26.558)

And I know how to bait a hook. I know how to dress a halibut. I know how to dress a black cut. I know how to run the roller. And I can provide for my family. Regardless of 60 North or Cinesy, I can still, I know a trade. Not many people know. This is a very, very small group of people that know how to do this. 

Sena Wheeler (16:42.264)

Yeah. 

Sena Wheeler (16:47.278)

one reason the industry is hard to break into. And if you think of like the Derby days, you know, do you want to take a new guy that you have no idea how he's going to do when it's make or break? Not really. 

Rich Wheeler (16:58.342)

with that young person that the older guy is sitting at the, know, taking a wheel watch and not knowing how to drive a boat at night when you have, you know, your crew down sleeping that decides to, you know, pile it on a, you know, a bunch of rocks. It's, it's, it's a really kind of, it's an interesting business. 

Michael Palumbos (17:18.114)

Yeah. Walk us through, you know, through the last 25, 30 years, what were some of the challenges that arose? What were some of the things that came up that the, you know, the family has overcome, you know, during that time? 

Rich Wheeler (17:34.828)

My time, I would have to say probably. 

Rich Wheeler (17:40.11)

splitting the time between work and home. And I think that we're dealing with that today, even, you know, like. 

Michael Palumbos (17:48.27)

Michael Palumbos (17:48.675)

Say that again for me. I missed that 

Rich Wheeler (17:50.828)

Being gone, being gone. Yeah, it's, it works out to be about six months of the year. Okay. And, oftentimes, you know, we're up there in the throes of it and just going, boys, it's all really worth it. And then I come home during the winter and I'm really involved with, you know, my family and I coach wrestling and I, know, Christina makes dinner and I make breakfast and we have these meals together and. 

Rich Wheeler (18:19.538)

You know, we have teenagers that interact with us and it's just at the end of the, know, in the morning time particularly we sit and pinch ourselves and go and wow, that was an amazing conversation that we all got to have together. 

Sena Wheeler (18:32.462)

We're here for it. We didn't have to run out the door. But it is interesting. I'd say, I mean, the lifestyle of Jess of Rich being gone and coming back, I mean, it's different. And as kids grow, I mean, you think, well, we get used to it, but the challenges just kind of change. I always kind of joke the first year when I was pregnant with our first, I was like, I felt really sorry for myself. 

Sena Wheeler (19:01.834)

And then the second year I was like, wait a second, now I have this toddler I'm dealing with. This is way worse than sitting there with a big belly. And then it was like, then I'm pregnant and have a kid at home. know, it's like, why was I crying about being home pregnant? That was actually really easy. I mean, every year was a new, bigger challenge. And so it's like, you look back and go, golly. 

Michael Palumbos (19:27.628)

Yeah, realistically, half the year, you're single parenting, right? 

Sena Wheeler (19:33.964)

Well, we'll always step in on that. We never call it single parenting because I have the support of Rich. You know, he's a phone call away and we talk multiple times every single day. So I never am alone or doing it on my own, fully supported. 

Michael Palumbos (19:54.498)

Thank you for connecting me. 

Rich Wheeler (19:56.75)

Rich Wheeler (19:57.03)

It's something that we purposely talk about and we know to each other that we're in each other's corner supporting each other and at no point should Sina ever feel that she's parenting alone. And I am very, very, very involved, even up in Alaska. If they need something, there's certain rules that we each take on. And if the kids need, I like go to Amazon and buying some damn shoes or something like that. 

Sena Wheeler (20:25.932)

Where's all the shoes? 

Rich Wheeler (20:27.614)

Yeah, 

Rich Wheeler (20:28.115)

I do. Shoes, I do my own shoes. So it sounds like that. So, you know, and we have, you know, Zoom calls or conferences, know, you know, so I am really involved. 

Sena Wheeler (20:30.734)

She's very expensive. 

Michael Palumbos (20:41.506)

That's really neat that you've put together a rhythm, even while you're away that works really well for everybody. just think about that, you you've got teamwork that's happening on the boat. If it without teamwork that's happening properly without good communication, things go wrong, right? The same thing you've got, you two are a team with the family's a team and it's that communication rhythm and 

Michael Palumbos (21:07.616)

knowing the roles that you play and putting that all together and having good communication. And you'll, you know, said it earlier. One of the benefits is when you're sitting down and always, you know, having breakfast together before they go to school and you're always having dinner together when they're home and you're getting some really incredible quality conversations and time with them and really probably, you know, planting seeds to grow these trees, right? You know, as they would say. 

Rich Wheeler (21:36.418)

Yeah, yeah. And it's really, you know, to say even further would be, Sina and I have learned how to work together and it's a always progressing progression of I can do better. And we do, you know, I really do listen to what Sina has to say and I really work on striving to, you know, support her, whether it's, you know, through the business or, you know, in the home life itself. So it's pretty sensitive to. 

Rich Wheeler (22:06.318)

with each other's needs are. 

Sena Wheeler (22:08.878)

What 

Sena Wheeler (22:09.278)

Rich does really amazingly is he kind of comes and goes seamlessly, which is when he's home, he just is immediately within the fabric of, he knows our routines and even though he's been gone, we do have some pretty solid routines and he's just in the flow. The kids will even say, he's been home for a couple of days. Oh, I feel like dad's just been home forever. And he just kind of whoop. 

Sena Wheeler (22:35.926)

right back into the family flow, which is really amazing. Because I know that some families in these situations, it's the transition times. know, it's, it's the leaving and coming back can be difficult. So I think you do really good job of, and he doesn't get all stressed out when he leaves, which I remember from my dad. 

Michael Palumbos (22:59.534)

Michael Palumbos (23:00.994)

It's funny because my wife and I talk about that transition time and my wife has a quarter of a mile car ride home. And sometimes I have clients that are two hours away and sometimes I'm just at the office. Now I'm mostly working out of my home office, which I absolutely love. But it is that changing gears from work mode to... 

Michael Palumbos (23:26.06)

you know, marriage mode to family mode to the kid mode, whatever needs to happen. So if you do that well, Rich, that's, you know, hats off to both of you for doing that. Well, that takes, again, I go back and I think it's that solid communication and trust and putting those pieces together to say, I know my roles and I got to be able to, you know, be there and, and change the role that I'm in depending on where I'm at. So. 

Rich Wheeler (23:51.958)

Yeah, and part of that is because we share the same goals. Yeah, I really, it's the alignment of our 

Rich Wheeler (24:02.926)

or lifestyle, know, accepting that, you know, there's no resentment that we're in this lifestyle because it's at times it's, it is challenging and oftentimes it is. but at the end of the day, we both appreciate where we're at and what we have. 

Sena Wheeler (24:20.984)

think that's kind of one of the benefits of the way it came through from my family. Sometimes the rub is, you know, the people at home or the wife at home that is like, didn't sign up for this. I don't need like, like, what is this? And for me, it's very different because I did grow up in it. My dad was gone and we did have a choice and there was a moment like, is this what we want to do? 

Sena Wheeler (24:48.178)

And my dad called me and said, is this what you want for your life? You know what it is. Right. And I said, yes. And so that simple. That choice, I would say, you know, we don't we, I catch myself or we don't slip into this victim mode because we chose this. This is the life we chose. I chose it knowing full well. 

Sena Wheeler (25:15.744)

what it entails. And so this is our chosen life. And so let's just make it be our chosen life. This is what we choose. 

Michael Palumbos (25:23.854)

Say that again. 

Rich Wheeler (25:25.192)

We have evolved this silly ass career of ours into something that either of us really kind of, you when we started, when I started fishing 25 years ago, we had no idea that, you know, we were going to even be remotely, my running a processing facility and, and seen as see doing, doing it's just like, you kidding me? No way could we have ever imagined, you know, such grandeur and 

Rich Wheeler (25:55.022)

And to tell you that it's always evolving too. I mean, I'll come up with some stupid ass idea and it seemed like, well, that was dumb. 

Michael Palumbos (26:04.418)

Okay. 

Sena Wheeler (26:09.774)

Or just took a lot of our time. I mean, our my dad and grandfathers, they fished and we're like the modern era. I think of us as like a family rancher that maybe has ranch for generations and now they're selling their own beef. I mean, and that's the modern era with internet. My dad, my grandpa, they fished, they went to the dock and they sold the fish and that was it. They didn't see that fish. Think about that fish. They are paid and done. 

Sena Wheeler (26:38.862)

We have to, you know, because of the internet and all of that, we can sell our own fish. It's extremely gratifying to fill that whole circle and sell our own fish. But it's extremely, takes a lot of time. I mean, I have a full-time job now doing that and selling our fish. And so it's, we're definitely, you know, going harder I'd say than what. 

Sena Wheeler (27:07.784)

generations before at least their off time was really 

Rich Wheeler (27:10.958)

Well, what, you know, and here again, this whole thing started because this is what fishermen dream of, like selling their own fish. And what a better to have your wife selling your fish. Are you kidding me? It's just like, I'll go catch this and you sell it. And that's how naive we were to think that it was easy. And it was just like, holy smokes, this is a lot of work. This is why people don't do it. It's really, really difficult. 

Sena Wheeler (27:37.088)

And and having your kids on the boat. Having your family with you is a big fisherman dream. You know, they sitting there alone on the boat and you know, having your family and then the other fisherman dream is selling your own fish, especially when you see the prices in the grocery store. Yeah, that. OK, that would be awesome. They're they're missing the work there. 

Michael Palumbos (28:01.646)

That's in between, right? course. 

Sena Wheeler (28:03.95)

So we're living the dream. It's just like, you know, a little more work than maybe what we imagined. 

Rich Wheeler (28:13.678)

And to be fair, Sina is a complete overachiever. mean, it's just like, you put the challenge in front of her and she is not going to go, you know, just for something that's okay. She's going to go for the best. And this is why Sina C is where it's at right now. And quite honestly, it's why we are where we are at, you know, with owning 60 North and, you know, Sina C, it's just the work ethic. 

Sena Wheeler (28:41.196)

Yeah, we didn't take the ball and run with it. 

Michael Palumbos (28:43.854)

Michael Palumbos (28:44.997)

So the fishing came first, then the processing plant, then CNSC. Did I have that right? 

Sena Wheeler (28:51.775)

No, actually it was the fishing and then C to C, so trying to sell our fish. So there were several years in there where we were using a processing plant and then it was the threat of that vanishing that we grabbed that middle piece. And then it became the full. 

Michael Palumbos (29:08.28)

So if you're, you know, talk about the internet business for a while, for a little bit there, how do people find you? You know, who are your customers? Who do you serve? What does that look like today? Like who is a core customer for you today? 

Sena Wheeler (29:21.646)

Well, we started on, we built a website, we had this great idea driving to Thanksgiving, know, hey, you should, Richard, hey, you should sell our fish. Oh, I'm on what? Oh, okay. And then, you know, a few months later, we had a website. And I remember the night that our website went live, we, we posted with a glass of champagne and like, waited for something to happen, you know. 

Sena Wheeler (29:46.574)

And nothing, nothing happens. That's the thing about a website. It's just sitting out there. I mean, you have to do a lot more. 

Michael Palumbos (29:57.614)

What are some of the things that you'll look at? this is really, I think this is a great conversation. So here I am talking to a fisherman, fishing family, right? you're the manufacturing facility. I know it's processing, you know, piece of it. And, know, where you're dealing with OSHA on the boat and in the, you know, in the processing plant. Then you're a digital marketer. You've got your website and everything that you're doing. 

Michael Palumbos (30:26.752)

If you look at like as you're going through. 

Michael Palumbos (30:33.07)

I'm trying to think the website's full-time 24 seven. So that's always up and running. 

Sena Wheeler (30:39.822)

I never say it's up for running. Yeah. I mean, I just, one of the things that really, when we first started is I, I took a business, I took a course on running an internet business. And I'm really grateful for that. I mean, we were living rural in the mountains and I had to wake up at six in the morning because our internet only was good till eight AM. We couldn't download. was a video course, you know, that kind of thing, but we just did it. And that 

Sena Wheeler (31:08.024)

course was made all the difference because I would have put up the website and I would have just done it like a fish store. Like this is salmon, buy it. And I didn't, you know, this course taught me, no, people want to buy from you and what are you offering and to put your personality into this, what you're doing and why. And when people come to the site, they should understand who you are and why you're doing this. 

Sena Wheeler (31:33.63)

and they said to start an email newsletter. Well, we were living very rural. I'd never been on a list before. I didn't even know what it was talking about, but I just did what it said and I set up this list and I had the emails collected and I started writing and in the beginning there was 40 people and I knew them all. so I didn't feel that bad about it. I didn't really, it was like, 

Sena Wheeler (32:01.43)

I know it's my mom and dad and some of my really good friends. So, know, for Thanksgiving, you know, or we cooked this, you know, like I just typed what was going on just, and it started from there in a really authentic way. And I am really grateful for that understanding. would have built something really much more sterile, but understanding that, that people want to buy from us and who are we and why are we doing this? And so doing that, we attracted 

Sena Wheeler (32:30.22)

just organically. We attracted this customer base or audience base that reads our newsletters, they care about sustainability, they care about what we're doing, they know who we are. And it's incredible really. I mean, we've had times where it's Copper River salmon and it didn't come in like they thought, we couldn't provide the fish we thought. And I send them an email and go, I'm really sorry, this is what sustainable fishing is like, we can't fish if the... 

Sena Wheeler (32:59.456)

if it's not open and for these reasons. the responses I get are, thank you, that's why we buy from you. And it was like, wow. 

Michael Palumbos (33:08.622)

Michael Palumbos (33:09.002)

Yeah, I just booked an episode with somebody who is a really good storyteller and she serves a lot of family businesses in the ag market. And just, she was talking about the power of story and connecting with your customers through those stories. It's exactly what you're saying. And, you know, I looked at our website and I'm like, my why. 

Michael Palumbos (33:37.408)

isn't on there. I've been doing this for how many years, you know, and it's like, I know better, but it's like, okay, we need to take the time. That's one of our goals this year is, you know, I have a very strong why I love serving businesses. You know, my father and I were in business together and we didn't always get along and we had different ways of doing things. And, and then, you know, as a parent, I would say, you know, 

Michael Palumbos (34:04.05)

I'm not the opposite of you guys, but I wasn't as thought-filled as I was raising kids. I was very business focused and I was the dad that was like, let me get out and make the donuts and do the things that need to be done and not making the transition. when, you know, the reason why family's in the name of our business today is because it's so important to me. like, I'm doing things with my kids today and being very intentional, even though they're all young adults, to make sure that I'm like, 

Michael Palumbos (34:33.049)

I'm, you know, and I told him, said, guys, don't do it the way I did it when you're parenting, when you're doing things, I did things wrong. And if I could go back and get that time, I would, but I can't. The only thing I can do is go forward. And so I'm going to inspire change within our family and how we do things so that you learn some other different ways of doing it. I love that you guys are intentional about how you've done things. And yes, maybe there's a few things where you're like, yeah, let's just do it. We get out. Maybe not so intentional, but I love it. 

Sena Wheeler (35:02.166)

No, that's cool. 

Rich Wheeler (35:03.086)

Yeah, yeah, completely. And it's been, you know, a lot of fun that today we get to reflect. We reflect back on some of the things and the accomplishments that we've made and to give each other, particularly, know, Sina and I, a big hug, like, wow. Sina started out selling our damn fish out of literally a 10 by 10 space. 

Rich Wheeler (35:31.892)

She would like it. You were leasing some space in a warehouse from a really nice guy that really wanted to see us achieve and accomplish. She was a businessman and was kind of rooting for us. And we'd spent a ton of money on this damn website. Yeah. And we're sending packages out to our friends and, you know, to, and Sina would get to the warehouse and fold out her table and 

Sena Wheeler (35:33.325)

Yeah. 

Sena Wheeler (35:47.949)

break it. 

Sena Wheeler (35:59.928)

I set up my folding table and pack a couple boxes. But I think to what you're saying, I agree. I mean, when we think back, it's those memories of the time on the boat with the kids. The dinners sitting in this, the boat is like being in an RV, the galley is tiny and things like that. Everybody crammed in and those moments where maybe we weren't catching as much fish as the other guy. 

Sena Wheeler (36:28.662)

We have these family memories that. 

Rich Wheeler (36:30.958)

And our kids talk about it. I mean, it's ingrained in what we're doing. this is something that being able to pass things down, generation to our kids, and they will have done this business. And whether they choose to be a part of it, we'll see. But it's pretty cool. It's pretty amazing. It's very cool. Yeah. And to pay homage to where we came from too. 

Rich Wheeler (37:00.354)

the 10 by 10 space to where we're at today. It's really, it's pretty awesome. 

Michael Palumbos (37:06.274)

That's fantastic. Talk to me a little bit about the product. we've got the fish, you know, what type of fish do you, know, people can go to the website. It's senacy, senacy.com, S-E-N-A-S-E-A.com. And they definitely should go out and check it out. But what's it like to be a customer of yours? You know, what does that look like? 

Rich Wheeler (37:34.286)

I'm going to jump in before Sina says anything on this because I oftentimes as I'm down at the warehouse on their packing days on a Monday or Tuesday, I marvel at the absolute beauty of these packages that are sent. If I was to receive one of these packages, I would be just absolutely honored and blown away and really thinking somebody loves me. There's that much love and pride and I cannot believe the amount of work that goes into this. 

Rich Wheeler (38:03.95)

So it's pretty awesome. 

Sena Wheeler (38:07.286)

Well, and we sell, I mean, we like to say the best of the best. Yep. So we have Copper River Salmon, which is the best salmon that in the world. We have wild, it's all wild, Alaskan sustainable black cod, which is called sablefish and halibut. And then we have some, some rockfish. So in terms of fish quality around the world, when you're talking Alaska, 

Sena Wheeler (38:34.912)

It's the cold pristine water that just makes the best fish. And we're selling kind of the elite of that. So the best of the best really kind of works for us. All of our fishermen are, we know and trust. So Rich knows everybody, all the fishermen. It's not this kind of, well, we think it's from over here. We talk to them, we know exactly who caught what at what time. 

Sena Wheeler (39:01.742)

So there's that traceability and then there's the sustainability piece, which is really important. It's important for people. You know what I kind of like to say for our customers, you just, can buy from us and trust us and it checks all those boxes on what you need out of your fish, wild, sustainable, traceable, all the things. But then Rich is saying, taking that all the way down to how we portion them. So we cut and portion it, you're going to get a six or an eight ounce portion. 

Sena Wheeler (39:28.352)

It's wrapped in parchment paper prior to vacuum sealing so it doesn't touch the plastic, keeps the quality really high through the winter, down to we're packing the boxes. So the portions look beautiful in the box. And with foam and dry ice, it comes totally frozen. And so it's that kind of white glove end to end that we're going for. 

Michael Palumbos (39:52.366)

I'm looking at the sampler bundle right now, know, halibut, sablefish and salmon, six portions, nine portions, just amazing, amazing. I had a question, and then you want to have subscriptions. So if somebody said, I know that I'm going through this on a regular basis and this is what I want to eat, then they can just sign up for a subscription through the website. That's pretty. 

Sena Wheeler (40:20.878)

It's all about making it really easy. part of our, you know, our mission is to have people just try the fish that we get to try all the time. And we want to make it easy. So, you know, I know that people have blocks about fish. It's hard to source. It's hard to cook, but we want to make it easy. You get it in your freezer and you have it. You will eat more of it. I promise. So we keep it really flexible. You can get a box every one, two or three months. You can get any size four portions up to 12 and 

Sena Wheeler (40:50.496)

and I allow it to be changed and people email me and we look at like, what do you like to eat? How do you like to cook it? How many do you want? And let's spread it out. And so it's not about cramming fish down people's throat and going like every month it's coming. It's really, know, how much do you want and let's get it going every month. And it's like, my dad gets a subscription because he doesn't want to go on the website and plug in his cart. It's too much work. So it's about that kind of ease and convenience. 

Michael Palumbos (41:19.704)

Love it. Talk to me about what is the vision for the future for you guys? What are you looking at? What are you thinking about five years down the road besides college for the kids 

Sena Wheeler (41:31.438)

you 

Michael Palumbos (41:32.552)

or whatever they decided? 

Sena Wheeler (41:34.168)

Kids, yeah, that's what we're looking at. a camper and driving around and visiting them at college. 

Rich Wheeler (41:38.55)

Yeah, 

Rich Wheeler (41:40.681)

pretty awesome. I think that 16NOR is going to be here again just refining our offerings and offering a great product. Building a business to one day sell, it might be something that we're looking towards. C2C is one of these really special businesses that because of CENA, it would be pretty tough to run without CENA. 

Rich Wheeler (42:08.308)

and her voice. So I think that probably in the next, I would probably say in the next five years, we could probably see maybe some, you know, other branding opportunities with, you know, selling cooking items, you know. 

Sena Wheeler (42:22.874)

I think that we're kind of looking into, it's that it goes back to what do people need to feel comfortable cooking fish? You know, we can provide the fish and there's this known kind of uncomfortableness or trepidation about cooking fish. So for C to C, we might lean a little bit more into that cooking side, more cooking demos. We already do a bunch of recipes on the site, but just helping people feel comfortable cooking it up. We have, I would say, 

Sena Wheeler (42:52.438)

what we have done well and will carry into the future is on both 16 North and C &C is leaning into that quality over quantity for one thing, kind of doing more with less, utilizing the whole fish is something that because we had C &C and we had an avenue to kind of, we scraped the backbones with a spoon and we make patties out of them. We had this avenue to do that already. And that's where 

Sena Wheeler (43:19.788)

The big guys are still way behind and we will be more, you know, already have been and we'll be leaning into that quality over quantity and doing more with less. And what can you do with this amazing resource that if you just put a little more time and energy into it, you know, how can you get more out of it? 

Rich Wheeler (43:38.126)

Yeah, and then of course passing the word along that, you know, this is really us. This is the conglomerate that, you know, is so big that, you know, they can't reach us. The beauty of what we do also is we get a customer response, has a question or a complaint or something like that. We tag team it. The customer service is probably the biggest and best thing that we do because it's really seen a night. 

Rich Wheeler (44:05.742)

answering the phones and we'll tag team a concern or a question. If it's on the processing side, I oftentimes will call the customer themselves and we'll sit down and have a great conversation, take the opportunity to learn and then secure a customer for life. 

Michael Palumbos (44:24.854)

Love it. So all of your business is direct to consumer? Do you do some that's, you know, to resellers at all? 

Rich Wheeler (44:32.822)

Yeah, we wholesale an immense amount of. 

Sena Wheeler (44:36.366)

Sena Wheeler (44:37.97)

So if you think about it, CNA-C is kind of like a best customer of 16 North, but 16 North has other wholesale customers. 

Rich Wheeler (44:46.102)

God, know, fairly. I we're going through millions of pounds of So. 

Michael Palumbos (44:52.61)

So you got it. What else? What haven't I asked you that I should? 

Sena Wheeler (44:59.518)

how people can get in touch with us. 

Michael Palumbos (45:02.894)

Sure. How can people get in touch about that? 

Sena Wheeler (45:06.222)

Like I mentioned before, our email list is the place where we kind of, I've always originally communicated with people and directed people and that's where you can get to know us. And so I always love to tell people to go to our website, you'll see the pop-up jump on our email list and we will just, we'll let you know what's coming up and what's going on. 

Michael Palumbos (45:29.686)

Right. And then are you available on any of the social media platforms as well or no? 

Sena Wheeler (45:36.364)

Yeah, we're most active on Instagram. We have our daughter doing our reels and some posts. 

Michael Palumbos (45:39.79)

Okay. 

Rich Wheeler (45:46.126)

Yeah, that's when she turned 14 and figured out that money is something that 

Michael Palumbos (45:56.449)

So she's going to become your social media director. 

Sena Wheeler (45:59.299)

Right. 

Rich Wheeler (45:59.788)

Yeah, well, we call her little her nickname is LM anyways for little mom and she's just a. Stino but smaller. 

Sena Wheeler (46:09.646)

She loves to cook and her contribution is like when we're out fishing and the other kids, you know, everybody has job on a boat, but she says, I'll be the cook inside. So there's a place for everybody and whatever they like to do. 

Michael Palumbos (46:27.5)

Good. How's the wrestling season going? 

Rich Wheeler (46:32.398)

We just had an amazing dual meet last night and it came down to the very last. 

Sena Wheeler (46:38.102)

Sena Wheeler (46:38.412)

that was, the last two matches, everyone's on their feet. It was incredible. 

Rich Wheeler (46:47.557)

It was awesome. Just fun. And we won. 

Sena Wheeler (46:51.419)

Well, it was down to the last match of the last guy and I mean, whoever wins this match will win the whole duel and the other one went into overtime. Was it overtime? 

Rich Wheeler (47:02.136)

time, the second to last match went over time. lost a team point. would, you know, was shaking my fist at the ref and maybe had a few words that maybe I should not have said, but it was just nothing but passion and it was pretty amazing. 

Sena Wheeler (47:20.042)

Well, had the senior loses in overtime, the second to last match, right? And now it's down to a freshman. And he's like a JV freshman thrown into the lineup because we have a spot. And now the whole thing rests on this freshman who has not won very many matches before, everybody like it, this is it. This is the match. And he stepped up and 

Sena Wheeler (47:47.924)

It was down to the wire and he did it. 

Rich Wheeler (47:50.625)

The panda bear. We call him the panda bear. 

Michael Palumbos (47:53.966)

So I told Sina before we started the show that both of my boys wrestled and I just loved. didn't, you know, I grew up with a, not a distaste for wrestling, but it was definitely not on my radar as something I would want my kids to do. And I will tell you, I just think it's such a great program. I, you know, it doesn't matter what side, you know, I haven't met a coach that I didn't really like and didn't love the kids. 

Michael Palumbos (48:23.628)

and just really wanted them to be their best. And it was just fun to watch them. So even though it's a team sport, there's so much individual piece to it. So it's such a different sport. I really, really learned to love watching them wrestle. 

Rich Wheeler (48:40.076)

Yeah, yeah, it's it's one of these as I have my parent meetings and and I talked to these kids. This is the the repeating of. We talk about how special these kids are just you know if you took a look at the big picture of life in our little high school that has 450 kids, you have a wrestling team of 30 kids and you're already completely different from everybody else because this is a crazy sport. Yeah, and you know. 

Rich Wheeler (49:08.536)

So there's already this inherent grit that this kid is going to step it up and he knows what he's already stepping into. And it's not going to be fun. Oftentimes, you know, when is it fun getting your nose ground into the mat, having a coach yell at you, it's a hundred degrees in the room. You're losing five pounds of practice and it's just like these, but these kids keep coming back and back and back. And I love hiring them up in Alaska. When I think facility is running at its best. 

Sena Wheeler (49:16.046)

or you. 

Rich Wheeler (49:37.75)

It's when I have wrestlers and you know, I mean, no offense to anybody out there who's listening, but nobody talks about having a team of basketball players work for you. Everybody talks about having a wrestler work for you. I mean, it is that much different and these kids are different and they will be great people. I know that so it's a great sport. I really love having the opportunity to be able to work with young people. 

Rich Wheeler (50:07.03)

If I had to choose my career again, I might go into teaching, you know, but I really enjoy it and feel very, very thankful. And the school district that we're in right now is just like that hats off there. It's amazing. 

Michael Palumbos (50:19.794)

I'll throw a book to, don't know, have you read anything, David Goggins? So you talk about the pain and what a wrestler goes through and it's like, you read David Goggins book and it's like, my gosh. wake up every morning and I'm like, if I don't get on the treadmill, I'm like, Goggins is gonna come and kick my backside. 

Rich Wheeler (50:24.746)

yes, yes. 

Sena Wheeler (50:42.801)

I'm 

Rich Wheeler (50:43.278)

Well, another great book would be Chosen Suffering by Tom Ryan, the Ohio State head coach. Great story and probably a little bit more relatable to, you know, really the, you know, David Goggins is amazing. The guy is bananas. 

Sena Wheeler (50:58.446)

Who's gonna run on broken legs? 

Michael Palumbos (51:00.814)

Right, or 240 miles in 60 hours. Come on. 

Rich Wheeler (51:05.196)

No, no, no. And I think I'm pretty tough. 

Michael Palumbos (51:10.678)

it's 

Michael Palumbos (51:10.858)

that entrepreneur piece where you hear that stuff. it's like, just being an entrepreneur, entrepreneur is tough. Being a business owner is tough. You've got to be made out of something different. So it's just nice to listen to somebody else that has been through a hard life and gone through some things that we all love, whether it's the football team or the wrestling team or the, runner, you know, it's those stories is what makes us get up in the morning. 

Rich Wheeler (51:36.93)

Yeah, yeah, really, really cool. listen to Tom Ryan, the chosen suffering. And then I think resilience is 

Michael Palumbos (51:43.31)

Okay. 

Sena Wheeler (51:46.286)

10 rules of resilience was really good. then what 10 rules of resilience. And it takes what it takes with them. 

Michael Palumbos (51:51.98)

resilience, okay? 

Rich Wheeler (51:56.398)

Yeah, was so we're in all this stuff and you know it's a lot of my messaging and practice and you know you can I'm really really big in the goal setting. Yeah, we talked about it's mandatory if you do not have a goal or your goal sheet, you will not wrestle on our team. 

Sena Wheeler (52:13.858)

But he does that at 60 North too. what it is like you're saying entrepreneurship, there's there is a real crossover with with all of this. It's all personal growth, whether you're stepping out and onto the mat and a single it for the first time or you know, you trying to launch it. It's all just digging deep and doing what it takes. 

Michael Palumbos (52:37.27)

Yeah, I never understand when I meet a CEO or business owner that's not a reader. I am like, how, how did you get to doing what you're doing? Because it's just so hard and the obstacles that are thrown at you. And, you know, you just, if you ever had to sit there and say, I think I got enough to cover payroll this week. I just once, you know, that feeling in your gut and I've been there, you know, is like me. my, this is, this is gut wrenching. 

Michael Palumbos (53:07.342)

I remember going to my father and saying, dad, don't, I don't know how I'm going to, I don't know how I'm going to do this. He goes, one, you'll figure it out, but just tap into your 401k if you have to. like, that's my retirement money. What do you know? You always told me and I'm a financial advisor. You never tap your 401k. You're a business owner, son. That's different. You may not. 

Rich Wheeler (53:26.828)

different class. yeah, yeah. And as Tina said, even at 60 North, I require my employees to fill out a goal sheet. A purpose is so important to be floating around in this space. Without a purpose, it's why there's drug addicts and people that, you know, are just lost in this world. So I take it real serious. And, know, oftentimes, they don't care. And it's just, you know, a wish list. 

Sena Wheeler (53:28.407)

Red. 

Rich Wheeler (53:56.16)

a Christmas wish list as I call it. But I do have those people that do stick to their goals and accomplish and it's really rewarding for them, most importantly, and I find a lot of gratification for them also. 

Michael Palumbos (54:10.094)

There is a book out there. don't know if it had one more book, the dream manager by Matthew Kelly. Great. Great book that you'll get a lot. You'll you'll love that if if you haven't read it, but it's just you're doing it already, but it's just really nice to be thinking about what can I do? Meeting these people with what their goals are. We may have a goal as a company, but their goals personally don't match the company goals all the time. So how can I connect what they're doing with their goals? 

Michael Palumbos (54:39.82)

And it's just a really nice. 

Sena Wheeler (54:41.102)

Sena Wheeler (54:41.664)

that sounds perfect. Yeah. Yeah. 

Rich Wheeler (54:42.838)

Yeah, just wrote it down. 

Michael Palumbos (54:47.278)

What's the name of the 60 North? That's been awesome. This is, this is enlightening. I've got a little bit of a charge right now. Now got to go and figure out what I can do for the next couple of hours because. 

Rich Wheeler (54:54.328)

Yeah. 

Rich Wheeler (55:04.556)

Go run, go do pushups. 

Rich Wheeler (55:07.819)

I got practice in like 20 minutes too, so. 

Michael Palumbos (55:10.53)

There you go. What thank you for listening in on the family biz show everybody. My name is Michael Palumbos and this is bad with family wealth and legacy in Rochester, New York. We can't wait to have you on the next episode and listen in and make sure you don't miss some more great guests just like Rich and Sina. Again, thank you both so much. 

Sena Wheeler (55:11.554)

Thank 

Rich Wheeler (55:34.274)

Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.